Dozens of men discuss ignoring single sex space rules

[SingleSexSpacesInSchools]

https://www.reddit.com/r/transgenderUK/comments/1u1webq/is_anyone_here_actually_going_to_follow_the/

as mentioned in other threads, I really am concerned about compliance. I know it will never be 100% but am concerned about what blatant non compliance may lead to

Breaking out the big guns today I see! 😁
We've had:

pants inspections
policing bathrooms
male toilet attendants
talk, broad shouldered woman with deep voice
how to prove what sex people are
if a man wants to assault a woman, he'll do it anyway
definitely seen transpeople who pass 100% [how did you know they were trans then?]
other women don't mind
"they'd probably compliment the transwoman on their hair"
"cis men "

This is just risible! Do they think we were born yesterday?

C'mon guys, invent a new excuse! We've heard all of these before, and the response is still "no, you can't use women's spaces." Grow up, obey the law, and you'll be fine.

"they'd probably compliment the transwoman on their hair"

'Ooh, I just love how you have used a fringe (that's bangs for the American visitors) to disguise you male pattern baldness'.

If a woman compliments a male in a female single-sex space and they aren’t taking the piss as above, then chaps you need to understand that you have been clocked and that the woman is fawning precisely because you are a bloke in the wrong space.

Ha, yes exactly. In a kind of "didn't he do well" way (said in a Bruce Forsyth voice)

This is such a dumb argument. There are plenty of similar crimes that are difficult to catch in the moment but are still illegal. It is difficult to prove someone has shoplifted unless you confront them in the act and check their person. That doesn't mean we make shoplifting legal (interesting side note: California actually did make shoplifting somewhat legal for a time and it led to absolute chaos, which is why we don't just legalize criminal behavior even though it is difficult to police).

Being illegal and having criminal consequences is enough of a deterrent to stop most people who don't want to deal with the consequences of committing a petty crime, greatly reducing the behavior and victimhood. For the rest, they can be confronted by people who feel comfortable calling them out, bystanders can alert nearby police, they can be caught on video entering or leaving the facility, and once the ridiculous law allowing sex markers on ID is overturned (the natural next step after the Supreme Court ruling) checking ID will be all the proof anyone needs.

But like most crimes, it's pretty impossible to 100% stop the behavior. But that doesn't mean we legalize them. Can you imagine! And frankly I hope this makes you ask yourself, if you know the majority of women don't want you in their space and consider it a violation of their personhood, if you know it is illegal, if you know you can get arrested and face criminal consequences, and you are still so compelled to enter a women's bathroom that you go in anyway, I think you need to ask yourself what is it really that is compelling you to go in there... Bc I assure you its not just bc you need to go to the bathroom.

The whole thing boils down to "waaaah I don't WANNA! Don't WANNA and you can't make me!". Add foot stamps, jutting lower lip, and outraged crocodile tears, and you have a man being told to find a perfectly reasonable alternative to what he really really really wants to do. Because it's the law. And he's not three.

Ah yes. The delusion that transwomen pass is strong with the Reddit boys.

God luv 'em.

No 'pants inspections' required. Sight and sound will do the job. With ease.

You apparently didn't see the Mumsnet thread where someone posted a photo of the winner of a local women's race, claiming they were trans, which started an almighty pile on here and elsewhere, which was very distressing for the mother of 3 in question.

Mumsnet has to pull the thread and then the OP was obliged to start another one apologising.

You’re totally right. I’m female and I went out yesterday to walk the dog in a pair of jeans, a navy blue t shirt and no make-up. Naturally, every single person I met thought I was a man 🙄

Oh, wait! No, they didn’t! Despite my hair stuffed under a baseball cap and my tiny bust, every single person knew my sex. Bloody amazing, isn’t it? Almost as though we have an innate ability to correctly sex other humans.

Even babies can recognise men. There’s no need for genital inspections - it’s bloody obvious! The proof of this is that it worked just fine for decades (yes, without peering down people’s pants 🙄) and men stayed out of women’s toilets. It’s a social contract, and the only people who breach it are those who have made a genuine mistake or those who’ve actively chosen to override women’s boundaries.

...even dogs can sex people. Lots of dogs are scared of men.

DH, DS and various male friends are alert to the shenanigans of these men and are ready to politely but firmly challenge and report any such transgression to the relevant authorities.

Yes, and men from Reddit coming into a women's rights forum to scold the women - just another example of male entitlement.

One reddit bloke says "I made a statutory declaration stating my intent to live as a woman for the rest of my life, and I plan to do so."

If he was really living as a woman, he'd be taking into account women's feelings, and certainly not trying to make woman feel uncomfortable.

But no, he's clearly continuing to live as a man, taking up space that he isn't entitled to no matter the consequences to others.

Pretty sure dogs can do it with their eyes shut.

yes I’ve seen such threads - often as not quite a lot of the posts will be warning not to indulge in speculation on the basis of a photo.

Thats really not very relevant to whether we can usually accurately perceive someone’s sex in the flesh.

Of course it's relevant, and people get it wrong frequently in the flesh as well, as we can see on this thread.

I've been surprised on more than one occasion by both transmen and transwomen, generally those who have transitioned at a younger age.

As I said on anothe thread, are there any 'transwomen' in the public eye who genuinely pass? I can't think of a single one, even among those who were puberty blocked.

frequently

Evidence please

And by pass I mean on the basis of footage of them moving/speaking. Not a carefully posed, heavily filtered photo.

I mean this is a bit of a silly question really - if they are known for being trans already they will not be able to 'pass' as that is an already identified feature of them, made public and discussed.

If it is not known that they are trans then yes, they will be passing, but nobody would know that!

The reality is that enough natal females are transinvestigated and suspected anyway, so if they are I imagine most transwomen will be too.

This line of argument has become sooo tedious.

Why do you think people are challenging other people in single-sex spaces nowadays?

The reddit thread says it all. If women didn't think males might be in their spaces, they wouldn't feel the need to challenge.

Anyway, BINGO! for "transinvestigated"

It still doesn't mean any men actually pass.

Seriously, give me one example of someone that you think would pass to someone who didn't know they were trans, because I can't think of a single one. Even the ones most often held up as great examples are obviously male.

I'm sure there are a few who pass, probably younger and naturally smaller who were on puberty blockers.

And transmen with beards and male pattern balding often need a second look, and you might not bother if you're a man with no need to be wary of the slight guy coming into the gents.

I can remember countless times when I've walked into the ladies and stopped dead thinking I'm in the wrong one because of the person I see at the sink, then I realise she's a woman without her speaking, moving or even looking at me - our senses are amazing!

Maybe that's why so many men think they pass, they don't have the senses and lifetime of needing to do a risk assessment that we do.

To your first point - Who though? Because all of the usual examples that are cited that fit your description, some may come close, but none actually do when it comes down to brass tacks.

Maybe that's why so many men think they pass, they don't have the senses and lifetime of needing to do a risk assessment that we do.

Yes, and they think that looks are all that's required for "passing".
Body movement, gait etc rarely come into it, and if they do they are exaggerated.