How to respond he/she?

[Manchesteruser]

Out with friends. One friend's son has a TIM friend. Obviously male but fake boobs and wearing a dress, about 25. Everyone refers to him 'as she'. I asked one, 'why do you refer to him as 'her/she' rather than 'he' and was told that that was what he prefers.

How would you have responded?

Do you say to trans people that they should educate themselves and stop assuming that people who disagree with them politely are hateful and bigoted?

Try reading what older trans people have written on this subject, it may open your eyes.

It did. I discovered that attempts to explain gender identity as being a more enlightened replacement for sex in society are incoherent and damaging.

I do not understand how correctly sexing someone (perhaps someone you have known all his or her life) can be framed as "misgendering" and therefore automatically abusive. If I refer to a gay friend or relative of mine as "gay" it may or may not be abusive, depending on how I say it and the context. Even calling him "queer" may not be abusive, despite it having been used abusively countless times when I was a schoolboy.

If I call my son "he", do you think I'm going against the Forstater appeal judgment? I have loved and stood up for my son for the whole of his life, and it is in no way abusive if I refer to him accurately as the son he is. You would have me call my son "she" or pretend that he is my daughter. Bollocks (literally) to that. I cannot deny my son's existence. I don't base third person pronouns on how someone presents themselves or sees themselves; I base them on the knowledge and perception I have.

We all relate to everyone else based on our own perception of them. If you have just read what I have written and decided that makes me a bigot, you will relate to me based on that perception, not on the perception I have of myself, however much I would like you to see me as the lovely kind old gentleman I know myself to be. The gender identity worldview that lectures me on how I should refer to my son is as authoritarian as any religious cult I have come across (and I have come across many, from Moonies to rigid Christian sects).

Trans people can use whatever pronouns they like. What they can't reasonably do is dictate my pronoun usage. All my life I and literally everyone around me used third person pronouns based on sex. It is not OK to pretend that continuing that usage is hatred and abuse; that framing is damaging to the trans people who believe it. Pronouns are the property of the person using them to convey meaning as part of their language. The idea that there is such a thing as my pronouns which everyone must use about me is part of a widespread manipulation of other people's language, along with other examples such as "trans woman" which would make much more sense as "trans man" (a man who is trans) and vice versa.

Even "bigot" is the insult of choice of bigoted people who can see no other worldview than their own.

Lot's of how this impacts you but not them.

Misgendering functions as a targeted method of disrespect used to invalidate someone's identity. It's a kind of invalidation and erasure that makes them feel unseen or dismissed. Being misgendered can actively worsen anxiety, depression and gender dysphoria & can make people feel unsafe, stigmatised, and socially isolated which negatively impacts their ability to engage in workplaces and daily life.

If people cannot cope with being recognised as the sex they are they need to see a therapist

Pronouns are gendered not sexed.

Absolute bullshit.

yep

I suggest you notice the difference between real people and online propaganda.

Detransition is uncommon, and most of those who detrans didn't have any medical treatment at all. Many detrans due to violent transphobia, not regret.

Detrans people deserve love, support and to be heard. Their experiences are personal, not weapons to be used against trans people.

Can you really not see how coercively controlling how someone else speaks is a form of abuse?

You would have us all walking on eggshells, worrying about our language in case it 'invalidates' someone's someone's self-declared 'identity' which bears no resemblance to reality. Should we also validate the identity of the unwell man who insists he's Napoleon?

Not being able to control other people's speech, according to you, makes these people with pseudo identities feel 'unseen or dismissed'. A man with a pseudo identity of 'woman' should be pleased if he's 'unseen or dismissed' as people are just treating him like a woman.

Being forced into a situation where our speech is compelled to deny reality can make people anxious and negatively impact their ability to engage in workplaces and daily life.

Are you suggesting that Reddit is populated exclusively by bots?

I agree that it's difficult to know how much of what is written on those spaces is real, but I suppose the same could be said of Mumsnet. For example, how do I know you're a real person and not a bot?

Quite a few legal cases happening in the US for something so uncommon.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5469068-detransitioner-legal-cases-going-to-trial-in-usa-january-2026

Odd that something so uncommon needs this sort of support service being set up by the NHS.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5518492-detransition-pathway-uk-kudos-to-michael-kerr

And this in the US for children affected.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5530455-us-to-open-worlds-first-childrens-detransition-clinic-texas-hospital-to-offer-free-services-reversing-the-effects-of-gender-affirming-treatments

These 70 detransitioners also seem to be real people.
https://genspect.org/seventy-detransitioners-come-to-washington/

I'm sure OP won't be offended when other members of the group start calling her bigoted horror then.