How to respond he/she?

[Manchesteruser]

Out with friends. One friend's son has a TIM friend. Obviously male but fake boobs and wearing a dress, about 25. Everyone refers to him 'as she'. I asked one, 'why do you refer to him as 'her/she' rather than 'he' and was told that that was what he prefers.

How would you have responded?

Show me a child who doesn't have an identity crisis at least at some point in their lives. Especially more so now, when communities with which to identity with (historically tied to subcultures) has been eroded so much.

Not being comfortable with who you are / how the world expects you to act and behave does not equate to gender dysphoria. Its just another example of projecting societies ills onto individuals...But too many people/ groups are pushing the idea of gender dysphoria onto these vulnerable children. And its wrong.

Plus everything you raise around mental health, is an issue for pretty much every young person, not just trans kids. Mental health provision across the board is woefully inadequate. Early help intervention, sen provision, youth centres, nurturing in schools and education settings...the erosion of all of these things has left our children lost and unsure of themselves.

This is what was happeniing, but somehow stonewall and their ilk managed to subvert the whole system and we have the bizarre situation that we are in now.

Exactly. We were on the right track but the TRAs came and messed these poor children up.

I see we're back at "trans people exist" again.

Blows my mind that adults can use this turn of phrase with a straight face.

It's so unbelievably juvenile and it terrifies me that there appear to be adults who are 'guiding' children through distress using such childlike phrases.

Unfortunately for you TPS, @Seethlaw is a trans man. An extremely well informed trans man who is in touch with reality. Not just their own reality, but you know, ACTUAL reality.

I see we're back at "trans people exist" again.

Blows my mind that adults can use this turn of phrase with a straight face.

Exactly! Like, nobody's denying that trans people like me exist; that's absolutely not the point! The point is: how does a civilised society deal with us? Recognising that we exist is the very first step, and that's done. It's what come next that's being discussed.

There are several serious medical conditions popping up here and there in my family: there are people with autism, schizophrenia, Cluster B personality disorders, and so on. And guess what? Nobody ever says, "Oh, well, since they have a condition, it's okay to medically abuse them." If someone said, "It's okay to drug them until they can't put two thoughts together," or "It's always good to lock them into psychiatric facilities", there would be massive outcries and for good reason.

So why - WHY? - is it EVER okay to say, "It's good to give children drugs that will severely mess up their bodies for life, and even potentially shorten that life" ? Or, "It's okay to encourage children to want massive surgeries that will significantly negatively affect their physical quality of life" ? I mean, WTF!? What is wrong with parents that they should want their own children to start their adult lives with those massive hurdles already entrenched and unremoveable??

I just don't get it. Yes, trans people exist, DUH! But no, that doesn't in any way justify harming children's health. If your best solution to a problem is, "Harm children", then your solution is not a solution at all, and you need to look for a better one!

Oh now lets be a little bit careful here, you've got some very sweeping claims,,,,,'Most trans children become trans adults and stay that way'. While for the majority of adolescents with intense, persistent dysphoria this might be true it certainly is not true of younger children. Between just 2 and 27% of pre pubescent children with gender dysphoria continue into adulthood as trans. And that's a very different thing from 'most children'.

If no one was even able to get gender affirming care for 20 years then there would be no problem with puberty blockers surely? Because everyone would have been over 18 before they had any chance of getting them.

Can you show me the data that supports your claim that most detransitioners support trans people transitioning in the way they did (which I'm assuming is what you mean by 'support trans people') because all i can find is that there are no stats and many detransitioners think there should be stronger medical caution or do not support medical transitioning at all - while only those that detransitioned due to external pressures tended to remain supportive.

I could argue a couple other points but really the main thing is please don't say things like 'most trans children become trans adults and stay that way; because it's very. very wrong. Oh and the reason people are so interested in 'children's bodies' is the potential damage that is being done to them. PB's are not without consequences beyond just delaying puberty. I'm particularly 'concerned' because my ds is autistic and as we know autistic teens have a high risk of not fitting in and looking for things that will help with that. Roughly one fifth of trans children are diagnosed autistic.

I can't imagine TPA will be back on this thread given they've made themself look a right lemon.

.

Christ. If you're going to make stuff up, don't try it with someone who actually brought up a trans child.

The autism comment is especially breathtaking. No one is testing trans kids for autism, and there is no database of trans kids, mostly because very few have ever received gender appointments, and most of them were private practice. There's no datdbase of autistic kids either, or trans autistic kids.

Being autistic does not make anyone trans. Autistic trans people themselves have suggested they're much less likely to mask than neurotypicals, but that's it.

In addition, autism is very underdiagnosed - especially in cis women. It isn't at all unusual to be autistic.

'Autistic' is not a synonym for 'mentally ill' or 'learning disability' and terfs in generalreally need to stop using it that way.

I'm no longer surprised by the ignorant ableism on this site, but it's irritating nonetheless.

Your choice to consult transphobic sources rather than listen to trans people themselves, is yours alone.

The puberty blockers comment...are you that ignorant?! Seriously? It is because trans kids have been denied care that they haven't had access to puberty blockers. Yes it is a big deal.

The reason adults are interested in children's bodies is very, very obvious. All supportive parents know why there are so many cis men posting incessantly about our kids' bodies and feverishly inventing ridiculous scenarios where girls and adults with penises are forced by Big Woke to shower together. Ugh. Ugh. Sickos. We know.

As soon as anyone uses the nonsense word ‘cis’ and insists on using it despite objections by others, it is hard to trust anything they write.

Wow.

There's only a whole whistleblowing scandal to refer to here.

But you know as usual you are so arrogant and think you know more than anyone else.

Just wow.

The autism comment is especially breathtaking. No one is testing trans kids for autism, and there is no database of trans kids, mostly because very few have ever received gender appointments, and most of them were private practice. There's no datdbase of autistic kids either, or trans autistic kids.

Funny. It's almost like you've never heard of the words "Tavistock" or "Cass report"...

Being autistic does not make anyone trans.

If "There's no datdbase of autistic kids either, or trans autistic kids", then how do you know that? Answer: you don't. You do realise that not knowing A is not at all the same as knowing non-A, right?

'Autistic' is not a synonym for 'mentally ill' or 'learning disability' and terfs in generalreally need to stop using it that way.

Until you did right here, nobody else had done so.

Your choice to consult transphobic sources rather than listen to trans people themselves, is yours alone.

Does that mean you're going to listen to me one day?

The reason adults are interested in children's bodies is very, very obvious. All supportive parents know why there are so many cis men posting incessantly about our kids' bodies

You don't seem to be aware that most members of MN are not "cis men", so I'll inform you: most members of Mumsnet are gasp mums, as in, women. That includes me. Oh, and my son is autistic by the way, so don't try to bullshit me about autism either...

“No one is testing trans kids for autism, and there is no database of trans kids, mostly because very few have ever received gender appointments, and most of them were private practice.“

The misinformation that keeps being posted by this poster is frightfully harmful.

The accusations they make about ignorance do strike me as being pure projection considering their overall posting history.

”Listen to trans people”
”No, not that trans person”