How do you handle gender identity disagreements within a long-standing social group?

[GuinevereOfTheRoyalCourt]

I am very firmly of the opinion that no child can be 'transgender', and that instead we should just embrace the fact that some are gender non-conforming and allow them to express themselves however they choose. I view the use of puberty blockers, x-sex hormones and 'gender-affirming' surgery on children as immoral.

I have participated in a club (my hobby) for many years which mostly includes middle-aged women of a similar age with teenage children. I have been aware for some time (at least 4 years) that one of the women probably had a trans child because of snippets of conversations that I've overheard and generic WhatsApp posts about trans rights.

Anyway, during a recent social gathering - one of the other ladies enquired about the child and it was clear that they have been transitioned for some time but are still only mid-teens. The mother of this child (who I've always got on with well in a superficial small-talk way) is clearly of a very similar mindset to Susie Green. I was quite horrified about what she was saying, but I sat in complete silence. All the other ladies were being really sympathetic and supportive.

This has really played on my mind. I hate confrontations and I really don't want to have any fallings out as this club is really important to me. However, I feel terrible that no other opinion was being expressed and that my silence effectively makes me complicit in the harm of a child.

How do other people deal with this sort of situation? I can't help feeling that most people don't even give much thought to this issue (hence the supportive voices from everyone else) and that we'll only stop this happening if they get to hear the 'other side'. But how can that happen if people like me feel too afraid to speak up?

Depends who you think is doing the bullying in this scenario. A public dressing down ensuring future silence from another person who is questioning or expressing a different opinion to you looks quite bullying to me.

”Dressing down” is not discussion. It is an aggressive telling off of someone whose views don’t meet with your approval.

I don’t see any element of bullying in the dilemma presented by the OP. Venturing an unpopular opinion is not bullying. Aggressively attacking someone for expressing an opinion to ensure they never mention it again is much closer to my idea of bullying. Particularly if you encourage group ostracisation in the process.

A dressing down is simply a sharp reprimand & the context of it here is to confront a bully.

Bullying targets a vulnerable individual (a less powerful person) that causes distress, fear, or psychological harm through physical, verbal or social manipulation.

Let's not forget the OP makes it clear that her 'problem' isn't just about the right to express an unpopular opinion but rather she wishes to 'correct' the 'errant' behaviour of another parent for allegedly harming her child exploiting a social situation to impose her unsubstantiated, unwelcome views.

Social manipulation is the use of deceptive, abusive, or underhanded tactics to influence the behaviour or perception of others, usually to serve the manipulator's interests at the expense of the victim. It exploits psychological, emotional, or social dynamics to gain an unfair advantage.

If you don't think attacking the parenting of a vulnerable person who is already under significant stress & insecure over their child's wellbeing is bullying then you don't understand the concept.

Hard to know, but it might.

My cousin's child transitioned. She is the classic profile for someone likely to identify as trans - gay, probably on the spectrum (though not diagnosed).

She took T, thankfully didn't have surgery.

After a few years she decided that 'living as a man' wasn't making anything any better. She returned to presenting as a woman, came off T. But her time on testosterone has resulted in long term significant medical issues. She has no idea how long these will persist.

I'm not sure parents are fully aware of these potential outcomes, so I might share this story if I was in this position (obviously without identifying her). Her parents had no idea of the long term effects of T on a female body, unfortunately.

Out of interest… what long term medical conditions?

By the way don’t take this to mean I in any way support this entire trans nonsense

Not to go into too much detail on here, but it can affect skin, sexual function, bladder control. Not pleasant.

If a parent of a child taking testosterone hasn’t done a 1 minute google re long term medical side effects… then you telling your story is unlikely to permeate their tiny brains

Her own parents were given the whole 'better a son than a dead daughter' line - this was pre Cass. Whatever concerns they had were buried with that hanging over their heads. Just as an example.

I'm not sure everyone does do due diligence unfortunately and lots of people haven't heard any detransitioner's stories.

Due diligence? It’s a 30 second google

Hogwash. You aren't raped by a dress.

This mother has first hand experience of her child's struggles and what this entails, you haven't. It's not your place to give your opinion on their situation when you know nothing about what they've been through as a family.

And unfortunately people may not do it, or do it and dismiss it. The reality of detransitioning is something that people don't take on board either. We need to be able to talk about the impacts of all of this, even the problematic ones. By not doing so, we are shoring up more problems for the future.

So if a parent hasn’t done a 30 second google about the long term side effects of their child taking a medication - they aren’t going to sit and listen to you telling a story about someone you know

I'm not sure you're right about that, I think it might. So I think it's worth a try.

I think the ones with GI views should be the ones worried about losing friendships . Why are GC people so worried about it. I have friends who've left the WI because of the exclusion of trans women , they know my views , I'm still a member we're still friends. Other friends are all GC . And some I don't know their views.

It's like arguing about religion. Rarely are people genuinely open to learning new things.

So did you? With your cousin?

No. How could I share a story that hadn't happened yet?

So when your cousin’s child went on testosterone… you didn’t talk to them about the very well know long term side effects?

I didn't know anything about it at the time.

I really don't know why you're so very invested in whether I would share this story with other people or not. I'll follow my own judgement, not anyone else's.

You didn’t know about the long term medical effects?

No I didn't

The child's doctor will have talked to both the child and their parents about risks and side effects. They do not need to hear this information again from a non-expert.

Answering the question in the OP before reading the thread:
Really good friends? we avoid the topic (i am at odds with my bestie about this, but literally nothing else, so we don't discuss it.)
Good friends & other friends: if it comes up i don't say anything unless asked directly. Then i say that people should be free to dress how they like but that i don't believe anyone can change sex.
Groups of acquaintances and other: i don't say anything at all. I don't nod in agreement and if asked say the same as above.

Because that is my attitude to all this: people can't change sex. People can dress how they like and call themselves what they like. I will use the name anyone asks me to call them (unless obscene) but i don't use pretend pronouns.

Exactly!!! But that poster was saying they were completely ignorant about it.

Well unfortunately in my cousins child's case this was not conveyed fully. But I didn't know anything about it at the time either.