How do you handle gender identity disagreements within a long-standing social group?

[GuinevereOfTheRoyalCourt]

I am very firmly of the opinion that no child can be 'transgender', and that instead we should just embrace the fact that some are gender non-conforming and allow them to express themselves however they choose. I view the use of puberty blockers, x-sex hormones and 'gender-affirming' surgery on children as immoral.

I have participated in a club (my hobby) for many years which mostly includes middle-aged women of a similar age with teenage children. I have been aware for some time (at least 4 years) that one of the women probably had a trans child because of snippets of conversations that I've overheard and generic WhatsApp posts about trans rights.

Anyway, during a recent social gathering - one of the other ladies enquired about the child and it was clear that they have been transitioned for some time but are still only mid-teens. The mother of this child (who I've always got on with well in a superficial small-talk way) is clearly of a very similar mindset to Susie Green. I was quite horrified about what she was saying, but I sat in complete silence. All the other ladies were being really sympathetic and supportive.

This has really played on my mind. I hate confrontations and I really don't want to have any fallings out as this club is really important to me. However, I feel terrible that no other opinion was being expressed and that my silence effectively makes me complicit in the harm of a child.

How do other people deal with this sort of situation? I can't help feeling that most people don't even give much thought to this issue (hence the supportive voices from everyone else) and that we'll only stop this happening if they get to hear the 'other side'. But how can that happen if people like me feel too afraid to speak up?

I keep my opinions to myself. Others may be faking it as well. As with most things in life I'm happy to agree to disagree.

In that situation I wouldn't volunteer my opinion but, if pressed, I wouldn't lie.

I speak freely with close friends but am more circumspect with wider acquaintances. I don't shout my views but, if asked, would be clear and uncompromising. I try to be polite but truthful.

Sadly, the others don’t want alternative opinions, or they’d ask opinions. They haven’t. They’ve just described a situation in their life without asking for opinions on it.

I have a situation in my extended family. I asked a few naive sound8ng questions, despite knowing the answers. Their response made it clear that no alternative opinions would be tolerated.

Concerned about health risks of this treatment they’ve started?
Most trans people die before they’re 30 anyway (!), often by suicide, so it’s fine to trash their body with hormones and surgery.

and so on.

Thankfully I have never ever had the need to! Never come up in conversation thankfully

Not every social interaction needs to be a learning experience. I have people in my social group who I don’t have the same views as. I don’t think my friends are idiots, or unable to do any research to different points of view, they are all intelligent adults who are entitled to an opinion, or not to voice an opinion if they so wish.

If someone is going through a hard time and others are expressing sympathy, sometimes that’s all it is. You don’t need to necessarily agree with something to realise that people can be affected by it and sometimes just need a ‘there, there, poor you’, rather than someone to try and solve their problems which is what the other women might be trying to do.

“I’m sorry to hear that” and a benign smile.

I'm a firm believer that political debates and grandstanding is not appropriate for friendship groups and dinner tables.

I wouldn't lie if pressed, but neither would I seize an opportunity to browbeat a parent who is, at the end of the day, probably trying to navigate a very tricky situation the best way they think they can. They don't need to be made to feel guilty and you don't need the opprobrium.

I'll say something mild about having concerns about the approach taken and whatever the most obvious objection is. Sports and changing rooms pretty much everyone agrees on, the difficulty is getting people to believe that yes people really are trying to allow physically normal male teenagers in the girls changing rooms and sports. There's a lot of "yes but they wouldn't actually...".

I have a friend whose teenage autistic daughter transitioned and now uses male pronouns and has had all the surgery. When she first mentioned it to me I was honest and said I felt that was a huge shame but I knew as parents they were in a tough place (they had been told by CAMHS and psychologists their daughter would commit suicide if she wasn’t allowed to transition). Ever since then I use male pronouns for her and we are fine talking about how her child is doing. We just don’t talk about our personal views on it - at the end of the day I’m not living that situation

Have a similar issue with a group where It came up once and nearly blew the whole group apart as one person was determined that JKR was a hideous transphobe and it was clear from the "be kind/ no one really think anyone changes sex, it's just being polite/but intersex" responses that they'd never thought about it. I pushed back a bit but it was clear everyone was horrible uncomfortable and it's never been brought up again. Hopefully it never will. I think we don't need to fight everyone everywhere all the time if you know what I mean

This.

Actually almost every middle aged mother of teenagers I know has turned out to be gender critical/ sex realist when I've let it be known I am, but people are very careful at first in case they're speaking to someone who turns out to have strong feelings in the opposite direction. Most women will outwardly try to be supportive to friends and think it's "not their place" to comment on how a friend parents if it's not, at that moment, directly impacting on their children in an obvious, immediate, overt way. A lot of the time women make supportive noises because they're cowardly or don't want to cause upset rather than because they agree, and men generally just haven't thought about it because they don't think it will directly effect them and they just accept the "most vulnerable" line unanalysed.

The only woman my age I've come across with strong genderist opinions is child free and enjoys drag shows and I think hasn't thought about the harms of transing children whatsoever. When the topic came up in the context of a drag queen story time which was in the local news and she suggested that only transphobic biggots wouldn't support it, clearly expecting agreement (although I don't think drag queens are necessarily automatically trans - but umbrella maybe...) and I mildly said that sexualised costumes aren't appropriate for reading to toddlers no matter who's wearing them she seemed taken aback and said "I suppose that's true" and changed the subject.

Thanks, these responses are really reassuring to me! I have always avoided discussion of politics in this sort of social setting.

Mother-of-trans-child clearly has very strong opinions in the opposite direction to me, so I don't think I could ever argue a different view that would change her mind. I guess I'm just fearful that sympathy and silence is effectively encouraging this and means that more children (& families) get sucked in?

You are not complicit. This isn’t a situation you can intervene in.

If it’s raised as a discussion topic, or someone actually asks for people’s opinions, I’d stick to expressing concern for those who transition. Their health is massively compromised at an age when they are unlikely to be able to appreciate the implications.

Fundamentally there are two issues- the impact on the YP themselves, and the impact on society of a dangerous ideology. I don’t think it’s possible to raise the latter, while talking to someone in the throes of the former.

I think it is possible to mildly raise questions without directly contesting a person's views. And helps make it a broader conversation not you Vs her. Not all at once but:

That's a massive decision to make so young. Must be scary with all the controversy about puberty blockers. I hate all the stereotypes pushed at teenagers, I wonder if it's more than when we were young? What does she think about sports? Particularly if child is a daughter, is she going in male spaces and is mum concerned about safety?

I went to a Christmas lunch in December 2024 and one of my friends in tbe middle of that table was regaining the story of how her newly gone to uni son was saying he was a girl. It was all I could do to stop myself from spouting about it probably being the influence of hypno cissy porn with a large dose of desperation to be relevant in with a new crowd. I kept my gob shut and I think I got away with the eye rolls to my OH.

Agree to disagree and that it’s a conversation best not had.

This isn't about you. Just keep quiet, this is her thing to deal with, she really doesn't need to hear your opinions on her child

I doubt OP has any questions to raise that this child's parents won't have already thought of or already been asked many times before. Nor is it very likely possible to have a "broader" conversation about a topic that directly personally affects one participant without it feeling personal against them. Especially as in this case it would actually be personal since OP would be raising the topic precisely because she wants to make some points at this person, even if she is trying to hide behind a veil of a "general discussion". That veil is likely to be quite transparent, to be quite honest.

Regardless of the dreadful harm being done to these children, a social group isn't the place to challenge a parent. We know how relentlessly parents can be bullied "better a son than a dead daughter " and all that, with parental alienation being baked into the discourse coming from transactivists.

Things will change in the next years as safeguarding children is (painfully slowly) being reinstated. Unless parents are lucky enough to have informed supportive friends and family who can help them navigate this, I'm inclined to keep quiet in general gatherings and save the discussions for the 1 to 1 discussions where opinions and help are being asked for.

I look at how transactivists are so quick to shout transphobia and reckon that parents (even the tediously shouty ones) deserve a bit of "walk a mile in my shoes" consideration.

I find a sympathetic ‘it’s so hard for kids these days, it’s much more complicated than when we were young’ is enough. For sure the parents are already worried enough and their priority will just be their child’s health and wellbeing. It’s statistically likely to be additional to a load of ADHD, Autism, anxiety and other mental health issues already being dealt with anyway.

It's just so heartbreaking that we live in a world where friendships and even cordial acquaintances are made or broken based on single issues and politics. There was a time when it was considered discourteous to discuss religion or politics in situations outside of very close confidants. There was a time when it was assumed that your opinion on at least one or two topics was going to conflict with other members of your social group or community so you simply wouldn't go there. If your group meets to engage in a hobby, topics of conversation should be restricted to that hobby and non-controversial topics such as the latest film you saw, a local art show, a good book you read, etc.

I'm certain there are members of several things I'm involved in who have radically different opinions than me on certain things but unless they start shoving my face in it I'm happy to continue on without bringing it up. In my opinion it was rude of your group member to start discussing such a known divisive topic in an otherwise cordial environment, regardless of (frankly bc of) how personal the issue is.

Maybe I'm old fashioned but I think we lost something when we started vilifying etiquette and social rules.

If it becomes a topic of conversation again I'd try to politely change the subject and continue to do so until the rest of the group get the picture that they're making other members of their group uncomfortable, which is rude on their part not yours.

It's just so heartbreaking that we live in a world where friendships and even cordial acquaintances are made or broken based on single issues and politics.

presumably a very tenuous friendship at best

In my book club one member has a trans FTM child who transitioned around 15/16. Early on, I had a heated discussion with her, not about trans children, but about male-bodied people in female spaces. We agreed to disagree in the end. I've never spoken directly with her about her DS/DD. We all use 'his' boy name. Privately I know several other members are gender critical but we are just polite for the sake of the group. TBH it doesn't come up often, we avoid the subject and if it does come up, we move on quite quickly. We don't talk about the FTM child any differently to any other of our children.

There's one other member who's DD had a near miss - but seemed to back away from transition at the last minute. She was very sporty, and growing up in a family where both my friend / her mum, and her older sister are anorexically thin, and very very 'girly'. I have no doubt she was reacting strongly against this presentation of 'female'. My friend told us that her DD seemed to believe that she would grow up to become male just by deciding that she was, so god knows what bollocks she was accessing online. Again it was around 15/16. My friend and I are still close. I was able to be pretty honest when talking to her - she knows it's not possible to change sex (she is a nurse) but was very lost about it all.

Both families have real mental health issues, neurodivergence, sexist men / fathers and weak, compliant mothers totally reliant on keeping their men 'sweet' so really negative presentations of gender norms in relationships.

@GuinevereOfTheRoyalCourt "This has really played on my mind. I hate confrontations and I really don't want to have any fallings out as this club is really important to me. However, I feel terrible that no other opinion was being expressed and that my silence effectively makes me complicit in the harm of a child.
How do other people deal with this sort of situation? I can't help feeling that most people don't even give much thought to this issue (hence the supportive voices from everyone else) and that we'll only stop this happening if they get to hear the 'other side'. But how can that happen if people like me feel too afraid to speak up?"

There is nothing you can say that will prevent the harm being done to this child. Nothing. You are not complicit. Even if you made a speech as eloquent as Maeve Halligan's you cannot change a closed mind.

https://nitter.net/MaeveHalligan/status/2055228205804421218#m

In my book club one member has a trans FTM child who transitioned around 15/16.

@Wallywonker72 when you are debating with the parent about essentially their child…. Best to just keep schtum I think. See it as the same as perhaps listening to a parent talk about cry it out on their baby when you think the approach is tantamount to child abuse