Owen Jones on Facebook

[storminabuttercup]

‘If trans women use men’s toilets, they will be subjected to humiliation, abuse and violence.

Anyone with any sense knows this.

Which is why in practice trans women will not use men’s toilets, and will just increasingly be driven out of society.’

let’s just drive women out of society then eh? Because the same stands for women having to share with men in dresses ffs

have I missed something btw? Seems a random
post for a Sunday morning

@ShutupLwren lol what? Am I missing sarcasm here? Unisex sporting categories and prison wings would be an absolute disaster for women, no?

Let's all just be put at risk of rape and suck it up then. Small price to pay to prevent males being exposed to possible humiliation, abuse or violence!

Talcum X just doesn't like women. It's our job to be good mummies and make everything better.

He really hates it when we say no.

Depends whether the poster meant 'unisex' = 'single-sex'.

Owen Jones settling down to how it feels to be 'on the wrong side of history'.

He really does hate women, down to expecting a woman (funny how he knows who and who isn't a real woman when it suits him) to give him the use of her body to have his child. Its truly shocking that more people cannot see his utter contempt for women.

I don't really think it's true in the main, I don't think many men in the UK care about this at all.

Certainly fewer than the women who care.

I read that as additional provided gender neutral spaces in context of the post, which is where the guidance/law is going? Although gender neutral prison units can never be a possibility due to the realities of sex. The most likely answer would seem to be development of the already emerging specialist trans units (which will still be sex based and probably only needed in the men's estate, I doubt they'd be so needed or wanted in the women's estate). I'd say developing specific vulnerable prisoner units in mens prisons might be an idea, and they would, but while many of the men with gender identities are vulnerable, that does not mean some would not present a significant risk to other vulnerable men, or that this would make for a sensible grouping.

Specialist trans wings seem the only rational way to go, with prisoners having the option of the male estate locally or a specialist unit with these being fewer and less likely to be local.

Owen doesn’t have the monopoly on being awful on Facebook

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1018260703973088/

I do find that people who are busy, well-adjusted, and happy tend not to put so much effort into trying to ensure that half the population of the country is denied their own right to a happy, safe life as well.

The idea that a trans woman in a male toilet will be subject to humiliation, abuse and violence is absolute nonsense. As a 60 yr old man who has been in countless toilets over the years I can tell you what happens.

Firstly, and most importantly, men do not engage or communicate with other men. You don't make eye contact, you don't say anything. You do your business and you get out as quickly as possible.

Secondly, if you see someone who looks like a woman in the male toilet your first reaction would be double check that you're in the right loo. Then, on the off chance that you decided to say anything to that person it would be along the lines of 'er... excuse me love, I think you've got the wrong toilet'.

Finally, if you clock that the 'woman' is actually a bloke you are almost certainly going to ignore them.

Am I alone in never having read a single word written by OJ? Not in the UK so not reading the publications he's in.
I gather I'm not missing much...😏

Imagine - if men were not horrible to trans-IDing men in the men's toilets - and is there any proof other than OJ's low opinion of his own sex? - then there'd be no need for all those expensive fourth spaces, as there'd be no reason for transwomen not to use the toilets designated for their sex.

Think of the savings, OJ, and how that money could be spent something useful and actually needed!

Marie, I've only read bits and pieces, and heard things second hand from others, because I'm not on Twix. I gather you're not missing much intelligent discourse!

He's blocked me on Twitter, so I've given him a piece of my mind on Facebook.

I’m puzzled at where this idea that men are violent towards trans women has come from. After all, we women are repeatedly told we have an exaggerated fear of male violence and that we are “weaponising” our trauma when we ask men to stay out of our spaces.

So is it reasonable or unreasonable to fear male violence? Or are we supposed to believe that men are so aggressive that they will harm a trans woman, but simultaneously so gentle that they won’t harm women?

So he admits that transwomen don’t pass then?

funny how he didn’t give a shit about the women who were self excluding because of males on our spaces. He’s just a vile misogynist

So is it reasonable or unreasonable to fear male violence?

Broadly unreasonable, I think. I'd agree with @AlecTrevelyan006 's assessment upthread.

I remember last year some MP complaining about what happens if a pregnant woman needs to use the men’s - can she not do it now? Silly example because if she was queuing for the ladies and needed some urgency most women would let her through, but also highlighting that she thinks it’s safe enough for pregnant women why not every TW.

they can opt out. If they don’t want to compete in unisex category, don’t.
If youre wanting to identify as a woman when youre a man in prison then go to a wing designated for that. You’re given the option. If you don’t want to be with your biological sex, you can have a unisex option.

I’m puzzled at where this idea that men are violent towards trans women has come from.

The same place that 'people' ie trans women are dying because they aren't allowed to do whatever the fuck they like came from.

So he admits that transwomen don’t pass then?

It would seem his little thought process hasn't got that far yet ...

There are places I would recommend an effeminate man to avoid, because of the risk of aggression from other men. But those places are few and far between. If such an effeminate man was wearing a dress, side eye or a comment such as "the state of him" is the worst I would expect elsewhere.

The type of men (claiming to be women) who are older, more sexualised in their clothing choices, and who appear absurd rather than effeminate, I have mostly come across on social media or in news reports. I don't honestly know how aggressive men would react to them, though I can imagine some men being quite assertive if they perceived that type of man to be bothering anyone.

Certainly in the gents, I would expect nearly all men to studiously ignore any man in women's clothing, just as they would ignore odd behaviour by a man who clearly has a learning disability.

Surely he's just insulted all men including himself 🤷‍♀️ He is obviously one of the types who would ridicule a man in a dress because if he was going to be supportive that's the more important thing for him to say.

This is what I was wondering - how would he treat a trans women in the male toilets? If he's fine with it, then great, maybe he should call out those who aren't.

If he's not fine with it, then what kind of nasty individual is he?

There is no evidence of men being violent, nasty or even calling out trans women in men's toilets, if there were it would be all over the news.

As for Facebook, my feed is currently full of the same AI written BS under different "posters" all claiming that the SC ruling and the guidance will hurt LBGTQ+ and women.

I have even seen several posters saying that this will turn women's spaces in to unisex spaces. Which is barmy as we all know that letting trans women in to women's spaces already turns them in to unisex, but you can already seee the level of intelect that are being put into the posts.

😂