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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Are We Really 'Women' On The Inside?

1000 replies

HazelLemur · 27/04/2026 17:39

Dear friends,

As anyone paying attention to current trans affairs knows, the anti-trans brigade like to throw around what they think is the “killer question”.

"What is a woman, then?"

These people will often engage in triumphal sneering as they further insist "Your chromosomes are what you are; XX are women and XY are men. It's science, innit?"

And as a confident trans-woman I say to these people "Absolutely! What is a woman? Great question! Let's examine that".

To begin, let's consult three definitive sources:

First, the Cambridge Dictionary of the English Language.
Then, modern genetics and neurophysiology.
And finally, up to date research on brain structure in cisgender and transgender women.

First, the dictionary.
For this, let's go with the Cambridge Dictionary of the English Language:

Woman (noun)

  1. an adult female human being
  2. an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth

As we can see from #2, despite the recent social backlash and disproportionately loud screeching from certain murky corners of the internet, Western culture as a whole is moving toward accepting the validity of trans peoples' inner gender identity. No person with a working moral compass would consider this a bad thing.

Next, let’s summarize genetics and neurophysiology.

Modern society routinely treats all the following “XY” humans as WOMEN, however...
-You can be a woman because you have X & Y chromosomes but your body is insensitive to androgens and you have female anatomy & gender identity.
Ah, so much for the childishly simplistic “But women = XX and men = XY".
-You can be a woman with X & Y chromosomes but your Y is missing the SRY gene, so you have a female body and gender identity (yes, this is a real thing despite your denials).

People who have X & Y chromosomes, but their Y is missing the SRY gene, develop a female body.
Should we treat such people as men, in society, when they have the body of a woman, simply because simpletons insist that XY = Male?
Only an inveterate bigot with some weird religious and/or psychosexual axe to grind would say yes.

You can be a woman with XXY or XXXY chromosomes, giving you a male body but female brain/body map and gender identity.
-You can be a woman with XY chromosomes but a mutation called CBX2 that blocks the influence of the SRY gene.
-You can be a woman because you have 46,XY in some cells but 46,XX in other cells, or 47, XXY.

These are all valid, scientifically obervable genetic variations that highlight the "But XX = women and XY = men" mantra for the simplistic, unscientific nonsense that it is.

And lastly, there are studies of brain structure.
These show that in the section of the brain that determines one’s sense of gender identity.

The brains of transgender women are almost identical to those of cisgender women.
The brains of trans men also align more with cisgender men than they do with women.

And so, to summarize

Modern science, which is how rational people resolve differences of opinion.
It is not about referring to holy books, written in pre-scientific ages past.
It is not about regurgitating simplistic, binary statements that you learnt in the 4th grade.

This shows us that, genetically and biologically speaking, there are many types of women; including transgender women like me.

P.S. In this essay we have a summary of the cutting edge science which validates transgender womens' biologically determined, inner sense of gender identity.

As I’ve said, a rational society follows rational explanations, and doesn’t define its people via outdated religious or cultural ideas.
But beyond that, there is simply human courtesy and kindness.

It’s cruel, hateful and rude for the transphobic bigots to demand that people be forced to conform to their anti-scientific notions.

No one's life is affected negatively by honoring a transwoman as a woman, as the historical record of many trans accepting societies have shown.

Good people will see the very challenging dilemma that transwomen are in, and their natural empathy, coupled with scientific insight, will make them want to support their fellow human beings in being who they know they are.

And so, I ask all of you:

Should we as a society treat trans-women as the women their brain and neurobiology tells us they are? And, if not, why on earth wouldn’t we?

P.P.S. The image in this post is of women who have XY chromosomes, but an androgen insensitivity syndrome which causes their bodies to develop as female.
Would anyone in their right mind insist we treat them as males, simply because of their chromosomal makeup?
The bigots might, but you know you're better than that, right?

Are We Really 'Women' On The Inside?
OP posts:
Thread gallery
39
GarlicFind · Yesterday 23:02

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · Yesterday 22:38

Can anyone summarise the last 8 hours for me? 😇😇

I'll do my best ...

A: Sex realism is a belief system and a cult.
B: No, it isn't.

A: Sex realists are Reform voters who wanted out of the EU.
B: Don't be daft.

B: Communism's shit anyway.
A&B: Discussions of how shit, exactly, and whether the Greens/Labour could be classified as communist.

Digressions into the purported antisemitism and/or other racism of various politicians.

Further assertions of settled science re gender identity; further unmet demands for evidence of such science.

B: It's all about male control of female people.
A: No, it isn't.

BoiledBeetle IS A BEETLE! Coleopteran status (trans or otherwise) notwithstanding, everyone agrees reclining sofas would be a fine thing.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · Yesterday 23:05

onepostwonder · Yesterday 17:53

It's not a declaration or a narrow definition, it's a reality based observation, you are physically whatever sex your biology makes you.

Until recently, no one knew anything about chromosomes. Facts were derived from obseriving everyone's bodies. Physicality is a fact. The experience of another person is a fact. The later two facts are more present and influential in day to day life than the sex chromosomes in the single cell at the beginning of life.

Not one single poster, bar you, is talking about the sex chromosomes of a zygote.

We've talked about Wolffian ducts, Mullerian ducts, Swyer syndrome, pregnancy, and rape, but not zygotes.

MyrtleLion · Yesterday 23:06

GarlicFind · Yesterday 23:02

I'll do my best ...

A: Sex realism is a belief system and a cult.
B: No, it isn't.

A: Sex realists are Reform voters who wanted out of the EU.
B: Don't be daft.

B: Communism's shit anyway.
A&B: Discussions of how shit, exactly, and whether the Greens/Labour could be classified as communist.

Digressions into the purported antisemitism and/or other racism of various politicians.

Further assertions of settled science re gender identity; further unmet demands for evidence of such science.

B: It's all about male control of female people.
A: No, it isn't.

BoiledBeetle IS A BEETLE! Coleopteran status (trans or otherwise) notwithstanding, everyone agrees reclining sofas would be a fine thing.

And because I control three remote controls I am not a man but I am a PROPER FEMINIST!

And a Lion.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · Yesterday 23:33

onepostwonder · Yesterday 17:49

So what makes you a woman?
Your ladybrain?
The artificial hormones you take?
The surgeries you've had?
The clothes you wear?
Because you say so?
None of those make someone a woman.

I agree, none of that has ever made me a woman.

My treatment by society makes me a woman. Regardless of what I wear, how I style my hair, whether I wear or don't wear makeup, the tone of my voice, I will always be identified by others as a woman.

I have known a lot of men who have identified as women. One transitioned when he was 20-odd and is now in his 60s or 70s. He has "lived as a woman" whatever that means for nearly 50 years. He probably looks more like a woman than most men who have transitioned but I can still tell that he's a man. And it's not the physical characteristics. It's the entitlement and arrogance, the mansplaining and talking over women and assumption that he's always right. Because his lived experience is that he grew up to be a man.

Good for you?

I'm sure men treat him as if he's a woman, but the problem that men identifying as women might be as vulnerable and badly treated as women are, is not our problem to solve. But I don't see them on the streets campaigning for their own spaces, or against violent men. They become violent and aggressive and want what is ours.

You've referenced men specifically. How about women? You've leaped from one person into a statement about all trans women being violent and aggressive. Are all the 'men who have identified as women' you know been violent and agressive?

My treatment by society makes me a woman. Regardless of what I wear, how I style my hair, whether I wear or don't wear makeup, the tone of my voice, I will always be identified by others as a woman.

No, it doesn't.

The difference between you being unable to bear a child and my mother's sister being unable to bear a child is that you've always known that that wasn't an option because you are male. She thought she could, until investigations revealed problems with her ovaries that required oophorectomy, and then of course she couldn't have kids after that. Her experience is a uniquely female one.

The difference between you being raped and me being raped is that, whilst we both had cause to consider STI testing afterwards, only one of us needed to take the morning after pill and anxiously await her next period. My experience is a uniquely female one.

How others treat you isn't sufficient, nor is it even necessary, to be a woman. In a sex-equal society, a lot of the "social" stuff, like being talked over in meetings and shamed for wearing bikini tops in summer when men are walking topless down the street, wouldn't exist. Yet women would still be women.

What is necessary to be a woman is to have experiences that can only come from living in a female body. Not all the following apply to all women, but all women experience some of them:

  • A female puberty made of constantly varying, cycling hormones, not carefully-dosed daily pills.
  • Menstruating.
  • Medical investigation to find out why you aren't menstruating.
  • Pregnancy.
  • Medical investigation to find out why you aren't getting pregnant.
  • Worrying about the risk of becoming pregnant.

In a sex-equal society, those things would still exist.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · Yesterday 23:45

onepostwonder · Yesterday 18:52

I am wondering why sex realists are attempting to create a ludicrously grand trans woman unification scenario that defends their belief that sex is solely relevant based on one's cellular configuration at conception.

Once again: it's not about the seex chromosomes of the zygote. It's about reproductive tract developmental pathways and pregnancy risk.

You not understand biology.

MyAmpleSheep · Yesterday 23:50

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · Yesterday 22:38

Can anyone summarise the last 8 hours for me? 😇😇

Yes, here is my summary:

selffellatingouroborosofhate · Today 00:02

FlirtsWithRhinos · Yesterday 21:07

Because that "cellular configuration" is not just significant for a moment "at conception". It is an immutable fact determines the body that we will experience the world though and that people will experience us as for our whole lives.

And as female people that has significant meaningful consequences for us that we face everyday and that you will never face and mostly never even think about.

You in your ignorance solipsisticly assume that we care about and want to police trans women's identities.

But we don't really. It's just that the things you are aren't really anything to do with being a woman, not in the original sense that is the reason the concept of "woman" even exists in the first place and is a simple unavoidable reality for the female half of humanity.

We just want to continue to be allowed to recognise and speak about the things we are that you are not, because while you have no idea whatsoever why these things should matter, we, who will live with them not just at a "moment at conception", but from that moment of conception to the moment of our deaths, do.

And so it matters to those of us that are woman, in that original sense, that the definition of us is not subsumed by the definition of you who is not, because in that subsumation so much will be lost. Not to you, but from us.

By imposing your limited and self serving identity onto us you reduce us from everything we can be to only what you can also achieve. And sir, that is not much.

So what you seem to experience as some grand "anti trans" drama with you of course in the middle as the wounded and wronged grande dame is simply the reassertion of our truth to the lies you impose upon us.

you reduce us from everything we can be to only what you can also achieve.

All the girls at school were given little calendar things to log our periods. The boys weren't.

Any girl who didn't use hers because her periods didn't turn up would have been checked medically to see whether all was well with her reproductive tract.

Not one boy would ever menstruate nor face medical examination to determine why menarche hadn't happened yet. onepostwonder would not menstruate, nor face medical investigation of absent menarche.

Being a woman is about sexed bodies.

Boiledbeetle · Today 00:31

MyAmpleSheep · Yesterday 23:50

Yes, here is my summary:

totally agree!

viques · Today 01:30

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · Yesterday 20:07

But diverge to believe sex is not solely a fixed chromosomal state nor a required list of body parts or physical experiences.

Then you believe wrong, sex is a material reality, not imagination, no matter how hard you believe.
The human race only has 2 sexes, no human can change their sex, no matter how hard they believe and no human can be born in the wrong body.
It's not a question of belief, it's a fact, you can't change that no matter how hard you believe.

Edited

Not just humans who have two sexes. We live on a planet where 99.9999999 of the living species who have ever lived have evolved as binary, ie two distinct sexes, so not just us mammals, but all the insect,bird,reptile,amphibian,fish, with backbones, without backbones, all the no legged or multi legged,crawlers,walkers,runners,climbers,swimmers and flyers (as well as most plants species) have also evolved as binary. You do get some interesting variations, such as the molluscs who can both impregnate and be impregnated, but even in their charming way the principal of binary sexuality is clear. A male part and a female part. Binary sex works, it doesn’t need tweaking or renaming or splitting into factions. It just is.

ForCosyLion · Today 01:44

I agree with you, OP.

Let trans people be trans.

FantasyFoodhall · Today 01:47

I came along to engage in good faith but omg that was long, and I am tired and cannot be bothered.

OldCrone · Today 04:55

My treatment by society makes me a woman. Regardless of what I wear, how I style my hair, whether I wear or don't wear makeup, the tone of my voice, I will always be identified by others as a woman.

I thought the genderist line was that "gender identity" was something internal which people experience from within and only that person truly understands and knows what their "gender" is.

Now it seems that "gender identity" is imposed by society on others in the way they are treated, just like the old meaning of gender which feminists have been fighting against since forever.

So thanks onepostwonder for acknowledging that the new genderism is just the same as the old sexism. But just one question. What happens to your gender identity when you're alone, if it only exists in the way people treat you?

Wearenotborg · Today 05:44

ForCosyLion · Today 01:44

I agree with you, OP.

Let trans people be trans.

no one is stopping people being trans. And they can be happy using the facilities relating to their sex.

Taztoy · Today 05:44

selffellatingouroborosofhate · Yesterday 22:23

The Wolffian duct develops into many organs. It is not just one cell. You don't understand basic biology.

I'm uninterested in having a discussion about violence with you or anyone else here.

Male violence and the unique ways in which it affects women are at the heart of sex realist beliefs.

Edited

To be fair. I’m not allowed to talk about the male violence towards me on here,amd on his very board, as it is upsetting for others to read.

Taztoy · Today 05:47

ForCosyLion · Today 01:44

I agree with you, OP.

Let trans people be trans.

They can be as trans as they want.

what they can’t do is access facilities and single sex services for anything other then as the sex they were born.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · Today 06:15

viques · Today 01:30

Not just humans who have two sexes. We live on a planet where 99.9999999 of the living species who have ever lived have evolved as binary, ie two distinct sexes, so not just us mammals, but all the insect,bird,reptile,amphibian,fish, with backbones, without backbones, all the no legged or multi legged,crawlers,walkers,runners,climbers,swimmers and flyers (as well as most plants species) have also evolved as binary. You do get some interesting variations, such as the molluscs who can both impregnate and be impregnated, but even in their charming way the principal of binary sexuality is clear. A male part and a female part. Binary sex works, it doesn’t need tweaking or renaming or splitting into factions. It just is.

99.9999999 is over egging it, some lifeforms reproduce by cloning, like the 6,000,000 forms of bacteria, and sea anemones.

Igneococcus · Today 06:30

MyrtleLion · Yesterday 23:06

And because I control three remote controls I am not a man but I am a PROPER FEMINIST!

And a Lion.

Our remote control is controlled by whoever actually manages to find it.

Igneococcus · Today 06:40

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · Today 06:15

99.9999999 is over egging it, some lifeforms reproduce by cloning, like the 6,000,000 forms of bacteria, and sea anemones.

And yeasts can reproduce by budding (their version of bacteria/archaea's binary fission) or by mating.

WittyLimeBiscuit · Today 06:51

ForCosyLion · Today 01:44

I agree with you, OP.

Let trans people be trans.

People can believe whatever they like, but they cannot force others to share their beliefs or deny biological reality, particularly when to do so undermines the rights of half the population.

RedToothBrush · Today 08:15

ForCosyLion · Today 01:44

I agree with you, OP.

Let trans people be trans.

By definition, if you are trans you are someone cosplaying the opposite sex.

By definition if you are trans, you know your own sex but pretend you are the opposite sex. That's your identity - as trans. Your legal protections are all based on you being trans. But this relies on knowing your own sex. If you can't see your own sex you can't have protections as trans. Otherwise any biological woman never mind any man could claim to be a transwoman and have protected legal status as a transwoman... It also protects transpeople's health care rights to equal care and access to services. Otherwise it would be lawful to refuse service because there would be no relevant protected characteristic.

The absurdity of it all is in the above.

Transpeople can only exist in the sense that they are people who acknowledge their own sex and reject it whilst simultaneously relying on that acknowledgement. It's Schroeder's sex.

That makes it fucking tough shit for any wanting to erase sex. Attempts to erase sex are a full scale attempt to remove single sex based rights. Notably males are not affected in this because of their sex - so some transwomen stand to gain by potentially losing legal trans protections whilst removing the rights of women. At no point do they actually cease to exist though - all the do is create a situation where they dominate and destroy women's rights whilst gaining access to women and the ability to use women.

If transpeople just want to be transpeople then they can fuck off to the far side of fuck with this nonsense about wanting to exist whilst erasing women's rights. The only people trying to do this are those trying to self erase the category of trans in order to remove sex based rights. It's not us doing this - it's a particular group of TRAs themselves.

DialSquare · Today 08:16

ForCosyLion · Today 01:44

I agree with you, OP.

Let trans people be trans.

Please stop. I’m running out of eye roll GIFs.

quantumbutterfly · Today 08:24

WittyLimeBiscuit · Today 06:51

People can believe whatever they like, but they cannot force others to share their beliefs or deny biological reality, particularly when to do so undermines the rights of half the population.

True. Sometimes we call those beliefs delusion and we don't encourage them, especially if they're perceived to be harmful to themselves and others.
Consenting adults is usually the line I draw and currently rather a lot of women are not consenting to these boundaries being tested and broken, and rather a lot of parents are speaking up for children who cannot meaningfully consent to lifelong medication/sterilisation/health issues and experimental surgery.

Igmum · Today 08:33

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · Yesterday 12:53

Anyone who would vote Reform - knowing what a bunch of nasty racist fascists they are - simply because of their position on gender, should hang their head in shame.

Anyone who would vote Green, knowing they would sterilise vulnerable autistic girls, deny them access to proper therapy and compel them to be medical patients for life should hang their head in shame.

No, I don’t like Reform either but no-one should sanction this absolute abuse of children.

Beowulfa · Today 08:49

Is this ridiculous thread still chuntering on? Did I miss anything good, like cat pics, overnight?

I don't need 40 pages to tell me the Greens are shit, Reform are shit and that mammals can't change sex.

EdithStourton · Today 09:10

Leavesandthings · Yesterday 22:54

We didn't get any sources in the end.

Colour me surprised...

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