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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Are We Really 'Women' On The Inside?

1000 replies

HazelLemur · 27/04/2026 17:39

Dear friends,

As anyone paying attention to current trans affairs knows, the anti-trans brigade like to throw around what they think is the “killer question”.

"What is a woman, then?"

These people will often engage in triumphal sneering as they further insist "Your chromosomes are what you are; XX are women and XY are men. It's science, innit?"

And as a confident trans-woman I say to these people "Absolutely! What is a woman? Great question! Let's examine that".

To begin, let's consult three definitive sources:

First, the Cambridge Dictionary of the English Language.
Then, modern genetics and neurophysiology.
And finally, up to date research on brain structure in cisgender and transgender women.

First, the dictionary.
For this, let's go with the Cambridge Dictionary of the English Language:

Woman (noun)

  1. an adult female human being
  2. an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth

As we can see from #2, despite the recent social backlash and disproportionately loud screeching from certain murky corners of the internet, Western culture as a whole is moving toward accepting the validity of trans peoples' inner gender identity. No person with a working moral compass would consider this a bad thing.

Next, let’s summarize genetics and neurophysiology.

Modern society routinely treats all the following “XY” humans as WOMEN, however...
-You can be a woman because you have X & Y chromosomes but your body is insensitive to androgens and you have female anatomy & gender identity.
Ah, so much for the childishly simplistic “But women = XX and men = XY".
-You can be a woman with X & Y chromosomes but your Y is missing the SRY gene, so you have a female body and gender identity (yes, this is a real thing despite your denials).

People who have X & Y chromosomes, but their Y is missing the SRY gene, develop a female body.
Should we treat such people as men, in society, when they have the body of a woman, simply because simpletons insist that XY = Male?
Only an inveterate bigot with some weird religious and/or psychosexual axe to grind would say yes.

You can be a woman with XXY or XXXY chromosomes, giving you a male body but female brain/body map and gender identity.
-You can be a woman with XY chromosomes but a mutation called CBX2 that blocks the influence of the SRY gene.
-You can be a woman because you have 46,XY in some cells but 46,XX in other cells, or 47, XXY.

These are all valid, scientifically obervable genetic variations that highlight the "But XX = women and XY = men" mantra for the simplistic, unscientific nonsense that it is.

And lastly, there are studies of brain structure.
These show that in the section of the brain that determines one’s sense of gender identity.

The brains of transgender women are almost identical to those of cisgender women.
The brains of trans men also align more with cisgender men than they do with women.

And so, to summarize

Modern science, which is how rational people resolve differences of opinion.
It is not about referring to holy books, written in pre-scientific ages past.
It is not about regurgitating simplistic, binary statements that you learnt in the 4th grade.

This shows us that, genetically and biologically speaking, there are many types of women; including transgender women like me.

P.S. In this essay we have a summary of the cutting edge science which validates transgender womens' biologically determined, inner sense of gender identity.

As I’ve said, a rational society follows rational explanations, and doesn’t define its people via outdated religious or cultural ideas.
But beyond that, there is simply human courtesy and kindness.

It’s cruel, hateful and rude for the transphobic bigots to demand that people be forced to conform to their anti-scientific notions.

No one's life is affected negatively by honoring a transwoman as a woman, as the historical record of many trans accepting societies have shown.

Good people will see the very challenging dilemma that transwomen are in, and their natural empathy, coupled with scientific insight, will make them want to support their fellow human beings in being who they know they are.

And so, I ask all of you:

Should we as a society treat trans-women as the women their brain and neurobiology tells us they are? And, if not, why on earth wouldn’t we?

P.P.S. The image in this post is of women who have XY chromosomes, but an androgen insensitivity syndrome which causes their bodies to develop as female.
Would anyone in their right mind insist we treat them as males, simply because of their chromosomal makeup?
The bigots might, but you know you're better than that, right?

Are We Really 'Women' On The Inside?
OP posts:
Thread gallery
39
SirChenjins · Today 09:19

Beowulfa · Today 08:49

Is this ridiculous thread still chuntering on? Did I miss anything good, like cat pics, overnight?

I don't need 40 pages to tell me the Greens are shit, Reform are shit and that mammals can't change sex.

AidaP's putting together a wee 'which MNetter do I hate the most' spreadsheet - does that count?

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · Today 09:20

Hedgehogforshort · Yesterday 22:53

Yes of course

The majority “the poster is a twat” “evidence is bollocks”

total derail

Poster returns “no i am not” “here are my mates” (some pretending to be GC women)

endless too and fro

Poster “there are no men here”

Who votes for whom debate emphasis on mr “hypnotits”

<Enter left stage Monty pythons cast dressed as a beetle>

<enter right stage the urge resisters give in and arrive in possession of logic and facts>

Brief assessment of debate so far, no meeting in the middle found, nor will there ever be.

legend.

Mapletree1985 · Today 09:21

Let's suppose there is tiny subset of women who have XY chromosomes and a DSD.

First of all, it is debatable whether those people are technically women.

Secondly, unless you are one of those people, which I'm assuming you aren't since you call yourself a transwoman and not a woman, how is their case relevant to yours? It is possible for two things to be true simultaneously: 1. that there are some human beings with DSDs who have outwardly developed to look like women despite having XY chromosomes, and 2. there is another group of humans, unconnected in any way to the first, who don't have a DSD, and do have XY chromosomes, who prefer to think of themselves as women despite clearly not being an adult human female.

AngleofRepose · Today 09:22

GarlicFind · Yesterday 23:02

I'll do my best ...

A: Sex realism is a belief system and a cult.
B: No, it isn't.

A: Sex realists are Reform voters who wanted out of the EU.
B: Don't be daft.

B: Communism's shit anyway.
A&B: Discussions of how shit, exactly, and whether the Greens/Labour could be classified as communist.

Digressions into the purported antisemitism and/or other racism of various politicians.

Further assertions of settled science re gender identity; further unmet demands for evidence of such science.

B: It's all about male control of female people.
A: No, it isn't.

BoiledBeetle IS A BEETLE! Coleopteran status (trans or otherwise) notwithstanding, everyone agrees reclining sofas would be a fine thing.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for this excellent summary. And thank you also to everyone who's taken one for the team. I lost the will to live on about page 9.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · Today 09:23

GarlicFind · Yesterday 23:02

I'll do my best ...

A: Sex realism is a belief system and a cult.
B: No, it isn't.

A: Sex realists are Reform voters who wanted out of the EU.
B: Don't be daft.

B: Communism's shit anyway.
A&B: Discussions of how shit, exactly, and whether the Greens/Labour could be classified as communist.

Digressions into the purported antisemitism and/or other racism of various politicians.

Further assertions of settled science re gender identity; further unmet demands for evidence of such science.

B: It's all about male control of female people.
A: No, it isn't.

BoiledBeetle IS A BEETLE! Coleopteran status (trans or otherwise) notwithstanding, everyone agrees reclining sofas would be a fine thing.

Oo I fancy a reclining sofa but I reckon I'd never bother getting up again - also good to know Beetle identities are being respected.

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · Today 09:24

Leavesandthings · Yesterday 22:54

We didn't get any sources in the end.

not even hot sauce?

I am sad yet not shocked.

AngleofRepose · Today 09:24

SingleSexSpacesInSchools · Today 09:23

Oo I fancy a reclining sofa but I reckon I'd never bother getting up again - also good to know Beetle identities are being respected.

Oh, disrespect Beetle at your peril! 😉

Mapletree1985 · Today 09:26

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · Yesterday 09:13

I'm not sure that I would characterise my reply to you as ' support ' - I am proudly pro-trans, yes, but I thought your opening post was patronising, confrontational and ill-judged.

You've not convinced anyone here with your arguments. They were weakly presented, and lacked scientific sources.

I'm heartily sick of this debate. Every time I see it, it plays out into aggression, insults, and lack of any attempt - by either side - to reach any kind of understanding.

I do believe that trans women are women, and deserve kindness, respect and accommodation.

I also believe that biological women have a right to preserve certain women-only spaces, especially in sports, prisons, rape shelters. Not bathrooms or changing rooms.

I don't believe in this ' wrongly assigned male at birth ' nonsense. And I hate the word ' cis ' .

I don't think your opening post has helped move this debate on in the slightest.

"I do believe that trans women are women, and deserve kindness, respect and accommodation."

I believe transwomen are men, and that, unless they break the law, they deserve kindness, respect, and compassion, as all human beings do. But they do not have a right to enter women's spaces. Compassion, respect and kindness do not require that of us.

Davros · Today 09:54

@IggyPopsPlasticTrousers I saw Iggy Pop live in about 1978 at The Music Machine in Camden (now Koko). It was a long time ago and pretty hard to remember but I don’t think he was wearing see-through trousers with his cock and balls on show. I think I would have remembered that. I feel cheated now

lcakethereforeIam · Today 10:07

SirChenjins · Today 09:19

AidaP's putting together a wee 'which MNetter do I hate the most' spreadsheet - does that count?

I wonder where Maud (the gerbil) will rank?

AngryHerring · Today 10:19

ChappellApple · Yesterday 18:45

Love. Love. Love!!! I have researched all of this intensely (and I know how to conduct proper academic research, having a first-class degree in the social sciences myself). I have skin in the game, as my youngest is trans, male, and we (together with the correct professionals) supported him to transition socially. He is so much happier than those poor young people who you hear of who are ostracised by families and their immediate social circles, who do not have a clue, who would rather see their kids suffer for the sake of 'saving face'. Such an awesome young person, loved by all, and that is all that matters! Well, guess what? We're out and proud! With one trans kid and another bi kid! And no one is denying his biological sex, but that his gender identity doesn't align with it. We just want him healthy and happy x

thank goodness SOMEONE is totally going to show us the evidence.
Thank you!

Igneococcus · Today 10:28

AngryHerring · Today 10:19

thank goodness SOMEONE is totally going to show us the evidence.
Thank you!

That social science degree totally trumps all the biologists on this thread.

Taztoy · Today 10:29

AngryHerring · Today 10:19

thank goodness SOMEONE is totally going to show us the evidence.
Thank you!

I genuinely want to see evidence.

@ChappellApple can you share some links to evidence please?

can you tell me how your view squares with the recent law clarifications?

what’s your view on so goes sex spaces as allowed for in law?

MarieDeGournay · Today 10:44

SirChenjins · Today 09:19

AidaP's putting together a wee 'which MNetter do I hate the most' spreadsheet - does that count?

Me! me! me! over here Aida! I want to be the MNetter you hate the most!

I will wear it as a badge of honour. I may even get a t-shirt saying
'AidaP HATES ME MOST'

and anywhere I went where sensible women were gathered, they'd see my t-shirt and come up to me and say 'Way to go!' and 'You go gurl!' and 'Maith thú!' and 'Mazel tov!' and 'Brava!' and shake my hand and buy me drinks.

Perhaps a hint of jealousy that they had not been GC enough to be thoroughly hated by AidaP, but mostly admiration for having reached the top of Aida's league table of women he hates.

HazelLemur · Today 10:49

Mapletree1985 · Today 09:26

"I do believe that trans women are women, and deserve kindness, respect and accommodation."

I believe transwomen are men, and that, unless they break the law, they deserve kindness, respect, and compassion, as all human beings do. But they do not have a right to enter women's spaces. Compassion, respect and kindness do not require that of us.

"I believe transwomen are men, and that, unless they break the law, they deserve kindness, respect, and compassion, as all human beings do. But they do not have a right to enter women's spaces."

I suspect, given the treatment I and others have been subjected to, that also means we don't have the right to enter MN as a space? Certainly the flaming brands and pitchforks for the 'trans-monster' are in abundance here...

...which, to be fair, I knew before I ever registered 😉

OP posts:
SirChenjins · Today 10:52

Love it @MarieDeGournay !

Not making it onto AidaP, King of the TiM's, wee spreadsheet would be #sadtimes indeed 🤭

Boiledbeetle · Today 10:53

HazelLemur · Today 10:49

"I believe transwomen are men, and that, unless they break the law, they deserve kindness, respect, and compassion, as all human beings do. But they do not have a right to enter women's spaces."

I suspect, given the treatment I and others have been subjected to, that also means we don't have the right to enter MN as a space? Certainly the flaming brands and pitchforks for the 'trans-monster' are in abundance here...

...which, to be fair, I knew before I ever registered 😉

You have every right to enter MN it's not a single sex space.

Taztoy · Today 10:56

HazelLemur · Today 10:49

"I believe transwomen are men, and that, unless they break the law, they deserve kindness, respect, and compassion, as all human beings do. But they do not have a right to enter women's spaces."

I suspect, given the treatment I and others have been subjected to, that also means we don't have the right to enter MN as a space? Certainly the flaming brands and pitchforks for the 'trans-monster' are in abundance here...

...which, to be fair, I knew before I ever registered 😉

Can you please show me evidence that I have treated you in this way. Thank you.

HazelLemur · Today 10:57

Boiledbeetle · Today 10:53

You have every right to enter MN it's not a single sex space.

Thank you. We're making progress 😊

OP posts:
SirChenjins · Today 10:58

HazelLemur · Today 10:57

Thank you. We're making progress 😊

Twas always thus, since MN started 😊

PrizedPickledPopcorn · Today 10:59

It is disappointing it’s not a single sex space.
I appreciate the very many sensible men who post here, and in no way wish them to self exclude.
I just wish there was a way of having a chat about sensitive subjects with just women.

HazelLemur · Today 11:00

Taztoy · Today 10:56

Can you please show me evidence that I have treated you in this way. Thank you.

To be fair, you - personally - have controlled yourself. And it's appreciated.

OP posts:
quantumbutterfly · Today 11:02

PrizedPickledPopcorn · Today 10:59

It is disappointing it’s not a single sex space.
I appreciate the very many sensible men who post here, and in no way wish them to self exclude.
I just wish there was a way of having a chat about sensitive subjects with just women.

Apparently there used to be a women only app in Australia.

MagpiePi · Today 11:02

Taztoy · Today 10:29

I genuinely want to see evidence.

@ChappellApple can you share some links to evidence please?

can you tell me how your view squares with the recent law clarifications?

what’s your view on so goes sex spaces as allowed for in law?

I bet the evidence goes to another school

nicepotoftea · Today 11:03

HazelLemur · Today 10:49

"I believe transwomen are men, and that, unless they break the law, they deserve kindness, respect, and compassion, as all human beings do. But they do not have a right to enter women's spaces."

I suspect, given the treatment I and others have been subjected to, that also means we don't have the right to enter MN as a space? Certainly the flaming brands and pitchforks for the 'trans-monster' are in abundance here...

...which, to be fair, I knew before I ever registered 😉

There is no way to know the sex of any poster.

Plenty of men post on mumsnet.

People who simply post on mumsnet have no power to control whether anyone else posts on mumsnet.

The site is much more tightly moderated than others and you should certainly report any abuse.

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