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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Are We Really 'Women' On The Inside?

1000 replies

HazelLemur · 27/04/2026 17:39

Dear friends,

As anyone paying attention to current trans affairs knows, the anti-trans brigade like to throw around what they think is the “killer question”.

"What is a woman, then?"

These people will often engage in triumphal sneering as they further insist "Your chromosomes are what you are; XX are women and XY are men. It's science, innit?"

And as a confident trans-woman I say to these people "Absolutely! What is a woman? Great question! Let's examine that".

To begin, let's consult three definitive sources:

First, the Cambridge Dictionary of the English Language.
Then, modern genetics and neurophysiology.
And finally, up to date research on brain structure in cisgender and transgender women.

First, the dictionary.
For this, let's go with the Cambridge Dictionary of the English Language:

Woman (noun)

  1. an adult female human being
  2. an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to have a different sex at birth

As we can see from #2, despite the recent social backlash and disproportionately loud screeching from certain murky corners of the internet, Western culture as a whole is moving toward accepting the validity of trans peoples' inner gender identity. No person with a working moral compass would consider this a bad thing.

Next, let’s summarize genetics and neurophysiology.

Modern society routinely treats all the following “XY” humans as WOMEN, however...
-You can be a woman because you have X & Y chromosomes but your body is insensitive to androgens and you have female anatomy & gender identity.
Ah, so much for the childishly simplistic “But women = XX and men = XY".
-You can be a woman with X & Y chromosomes but your Y is missing the SRY gene, so you have a female body and gender identity (yes, this is a real thing despite your denials).

People who have X & Y chromosomes, but their Y is missing the SRY gene, develop a female body.
Should we treat such people as men, in society, when they have the body of a woman, simply because simpletons insist that XY = Male?
Only an inveterate bigot with some weird religious and/or psychosexual axe to grind would say yes.

You can be a woman with XXY or XXXY chromosomes, giving you a male body but female brain/body map and gender identity.
-You can be a woman with XY chromosomes but a mutation called CBX2 that blocks the influence of the SRY gene.
-You can be a woman because you have 46,XY in some cells but 46,XX in other cells, or 47, XXY.

These are all valid, scientifically obervable genetic variations that highlight the "But XX = women and XY = men" mantra for the simplistic, unscientific nonsense that it is.

And lastly, there are studies of brain structure.
These show that in the section of the brain that determines one’s sense of gender identity.

The brains of transgender women are almost identical to those of cisgender women.
The brains of trans men also align more with cisgender men than they do with women.

And so, to summarize

Modern science, which is how rational people resolve differences of opinion.
It is not about referring to holy books, written in pre-scientific ages past.
It is not about regurgitating simplistic, binary statements that you learnt in the 4th grade.

This shows us that, genetically and biologically speaking, there are many types of women; including transgender women like me.

P.S. In this essay we have a summary of the cutting edge science which validates transgender womens' biologically determined, inner sense of gender identity.

As I’ve said, a rational society follows rational explanations, and doesn’t define its people via outdated religious or cultural ideas.
But beyond that, there is simply human courtesy and kindness.

It’s cruel, hateful and rude for the transphobic bigots to demand that people be forced to conform to their anti-scientific notions.

No one's life is affected negatively by honoring a transwoman as a woman, as the historical record of many trans accepting societies have shown.

Good people will see the very challenging dilemma that transwomen are in, and their natural empathy, coupled with scientific insight, will make them want to support their fellow human beings in being who they know they are.

And so, I ask all of you:

Should we as a society treat trans-women as the women their brain and neurobiology tells us they are? And, if not, why on earth wouldn’t we?

P.P.S. The image in this post is of women who have XY chromosomes, but an androgen insensitivity syndrome which causes their bodies to develop as female.
Would anyone in their right mind insist we treat them as males, simply because of their chromosomal makeup?
The bigots might, but you know you're better than that, right?

Are We Really 'Women' On The Inside?
OP posts:
Thread gallery
39
Helleofabore · Yesterday 19:06

onepostwonder · Yesterday 18:43

There are some people who have sex realist beliefs. There are others who do not. There is very little likelihood of agreement about the allowable integration of trans people amongst non-trans people in spaces and other culturally relevant groupings.

I agree there is very little likelihood of agreement.

One group is demanding that their subjective reality is treated like material reality and the other group is saying ‘no, material reality shows that it is a significant risk to treat any male person as a special sub category and exclude them from
the group of all male people.

If a group of male people have special and specific needs for safeguarding, that should be considered as a completely separate issue and given special provisions just for them.

While a group of male people demand to be treated as if they are materially real female people because of their belief in a subjective reality there will never be an agreement. And there never should be. No organisation, no spokespeople should have led you and other male people to believe that they were materially female in any way when it is impossible for any male to be female. Not socially and not ‘physically’. It is all philosophical theory. It is not materially true

No female person should ever be subject to any abuse or negative outcome for saying ‘no, you are not female and should be excluded from female single sex provisions’.

Taztoy · Yesterday 19:08

onepostwonder · Yesterday 19:06

I am sorry you have experienced this in life. I think I may have read some of this in previous threads.

I do understand self-preservation and protection. What you believe about how I or other trans women present is based on your experience. No one can tell you that you are wrong. I will not.

How are you defining female?

because it’s not, to me, about a belief. It’s about a fact - the fact that you are male, that you choose to have an atypical man’s gender presentation.

why is it for women to accommodate this and not men?

BackToLurk · Yesterday 19:09

Taztoy · Yesterday 19:06

I’m not an emotional support human just because I have a vagina.

if a trans woman isn’t safe in a male single sex space, why is that women’s problem to solve?

why don’t the men have to budge up to make room for the non-gender confirming men?

The men would need to be asked to budge up, and transwomen are the type of bullying male cowards who are happier berating women than challenging other men.

Hedgehogforshort · Yesterday 19:11

I have scrolled through this debate which is frankly pretty irrelevant now.

That is because of The Supreme Court judgement.

It laid down in very specific and plain English terms, what sex means and what a woman is.

It also laid down in very specific terms, what rights people in possession of a GRC did not have.

Persons in possession of a GRC do not have the right to enter women’s spaces because they are not biological women.

Persons who are transitioning, or have transitioned do not have the right to enter female only spaces, and are not recognised as a certificated sex opposite to their biological sex, and remain their biological sex.

END OF.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · Yesterday 19:16

onepostwonder · Yesterday 17:53

It's not a declaration or a narrow definition, it's a reality based observation, you are physically whatever sex your biology makes you.

Until recently, no one knew anything about chromosomes. Facts were derived from obseriving everyone's bodies. Physicality is a fact. The experience of another person is a fact. The later two facts are more present and influential in day to day life than the sex chromosomes in the single cell at the beginning of life.

Just because we hadn't discovered them yet it didn't mean they only came into being when we did. 2 sex chromosomes in a cell that copies itself a trillion times over, we are whatever our cells decide we are, no matter how much we deny it.

onepostwonder · Yesterday 19:23

Taztoy · Yesterday 19:08

How are you defining female?

because it’s not, to me, about a belief. It’s about a fact - the fact that you are male, that you choose to have an atypical man’s gender presentation.

why is it for women to accommodate this and not men?

How are you defining female?

We're not going to agree. My personal understanding of female would align mostly with the sex realist definition. But diverge to believe sex is not solely a fixed chromosomal state nor a required list of body parts or physical experiences.

because it’s not, to me, about a belief. It’s about a fact - the fact that you are male, that you choose to have an atypical man’s gender presentation.

I cannot change how society treats me. That is a fact. MN has proven how silly it is to try to enumerate why. It just is. The facts surrounding my birth thankfully have very little impact on my life. It would be fucked up to think they would be relevant as an adult in any world.

why is it for women to accommodate this and not men?

Do men not accommodate trans men? This may be due to when I went through transition, but I've never seen much in the way of difference between the accommodation of trans women and trans men. Yes, there are weirdly 100s of thousands of hours more focus placed on defining and protecting the world (and women) from trans women these days. It's part of the reason why I'm here, because this place seems to be 'the most' concerned.

Boiledbeetle · Yesterday 19:24

Waitwhat23 · Yesterday 19:03

ludicrously grand trans woman unification scenario that defends their belief that sex is solely relevant based on one's cellular configuration at conception

That sentence is just begging to be set to music. Perhaps sung by a SSAA choir who perform the whole piece wearing expressions of incredulity at the madness of gender ideology.

Edited

I feel it lends itself more towards heavy metal...

https://suno.com/s/ms46Ab9T3KAjXAPt

Cellular Conception

Cellular Conception

Listen and make your own on Suno.

https://suno.com/song/c1e77460-ace8-4fd7-aa94-8470f174c33c?sh=ms46Ab9T3KAjXAPt

Taztoy · Yesterday 19:27

onepostwonder · Yesterday 19:23

How are you defining female?

We're not going to agree. My personal understanding of female would align mostly with the sex realist definition. But diverge to believe sex is not solely a fixed chromosomal state nor a required list of body parts or physical experiences.

because it’s not, to me, about a belief. It’s about a fact - the fact that you are male, that you choose to have an atypical man’s gender presentation.

I cannot change how society treats me. That is a fact. MN has proven how silly it is to try to enumerate why. It just is. The facts surrounding my birth thankfully have very little impact on my life. It would be fucked up to think they would be relevant as an adult in any world.

why is it for women to accommodate this and not men?

Do men not accommodate trans men? This may be due to when I went through transition, but I've never seen much in the way of difference between the accommodation of trans women and trans men. Yes, there are weirdly 100s of thousands of hours more focus placed on defining and protecting the world (and women) from trans women these days. It's part of the reason why I'm here, because this place seems to be 'the most' concerned.

What is sex then and how does it differ from gender?

It’s relevant as an adult to the law, I view that as thankfully. I need, want, and am legally entitled to single sex spaces for the sex class of female. That doesn’t include you. I don’t want a man in a women’s single sex space. I don’t want a male doctor when I ask for a woman. I don’t want a man in my single sex counselling space. I’m legally entitled to those.

Trans men, as you call them, are women and should use the facilities that align with their sex, which is female.

Magpiecomplex · Yesterday 19:32

Boiledbeetle · Yesterday 19:24

I feel it lends itself more towards heavy metal...

https://suno.com/s/ms46Ab9T3KAjXAPt

Brava, Boily! Magnificent!

RedToothBrush · Yesterday 19:34

Taztoy · Yesterday 19:06

I’m not an emotional support human just because I have a vagina.

if a trans woman isn’t safe in a male single sex space, why is that women’s problem to solve?

why don’t the men have to budge up to make room for the non-gender confirming men?

Yes you are. That's all women are good for.

If you don't like it become a transman and ruin your health instead.

MarieDeGournay · Yesterday 19:35

Taztoy · Yesterday 19:27

What is sex then and how does it differ from gender?

It’s relevant as an adult to the law, I view that as thankfully. I need, want, and am legally entitled to single sex spaces for the sex class of female. That doesn’t include you. I don’t want a man in a women’s single sex space. I don’t want a male doctor when I ask for a woman. I don’t want a man in my single sex counselling space. I’m legally entitled to those.

Trans men, as you call them, are women and should use the facilities that align with their sex, which is female.

Thank you Taztoy, that's clear and straightforward and as true on page 35 of this thread as it was on page 1.

Taztoy · Yesterday 19:42

And by the way. If the law hasn’t always viewed sex and gender as different, there wouldnt have been sex as a protected characteristic and gender reassignment as a different protected characteristic.

so it was never intended, in law, that the two be conflated.

im sorry that you were lied to but that doesnt change the law.

NotAtMyAge · Yesterday 19:48

IggyPopsPlasticTrousers · Yesterday 15:06

Don't f*cking call me a simpleton.

If you don't like it, you need to stop posting simplistic ideas which have already been proved not to work. Robin Hood is a folktale, not an economic policy.

Mrspepperminttea · Yesterday 20:00

Ohhh, for crying out loud.

Actually, I think HE is.....

Waitwhat23 · Yesterday 20:02

All this shite about 'how society views me'.

So if I decided I really, really wanted to be a dragon. Implemented some sort of furnace style contraption in my mouth, had scales installed under my skin, insisted that everyone refer to me as Dragonface, pronouns - ah/it/burns. Insisted that everyone paid fealty (and treasure) to me or I would burn them to death. Said that if anyone didn't agree that I was a dragon that they are dracophobic. Convinced myself that everyone really believed I was a dragon.

Wouldn't make me an actual dragon. For fuck's sake.

Boiledbeetle · Yesterday 20:05

Waitwhat23 · Yesterday 20:02

All this shite about 'how society views me'.

So if I decided I really, really wanted to be a dragon. Implemented some sort of furnace style contraption in my mouth, had scales installed under my skin, insisted that everyone refer to me as Dragonface, pronouns - ah/it/burns. Insisted that everyone paid fealty (and treasure) to me or I would burn them to death. Said that if anyone didn't agree that I was a dragon that they are dracophobic. Convinced myself that everyone really believed I was a dragon.

Wouldn't make me an actual dragon. For fuck's sake.

You're right it wouldn't.

But you accept I AM ACTUALLY A BEETLE

🪲

Right?

Wearenotborg · Yesterday 20:05

Terrribletwos · Yesterday 18:10

Or China?

No, that poster is male so would not have been left to die as a girl would have been

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · Yesterday 20:07

But diverge to believe sex is not solely a fixed chromosomal state nor a required list of body parts or physical experiences.

Then you believe wrong, sex is a material reality, not imagination, no matter how hard you believe.
The human race only has 2 sexes, no human can change their sex, no matter how hard they believe and no human can be born in the wrong body.
It's not a question of belief, it's a fact, you can't change that no matter how hard you believe.

Wearenotborg · Yesterday 20:08

onepostwonder · Yesterday 19:23

How are you defining female?

We're not going to agree. My personal understanding of female would align mostly with the sex realist definition. But diverge to believe sex is not solely a fixed chromosomal state nor a required list of body parts or physical experiences.

because it’s not, to me, about a belief. It’s about a fact - the fact that you are male, that you choose to have an atypical man’s gender presentation.

I cannot change how society treats me. That is a fact. MN has proven how silly it is to try to enumerate why. It just is. The facts surrounding my birth thankfully have very little impact on my life. It would be fucked up to think they would be relevant as an adult in any world.

why is it for women to accommodate this and not men?

Do men not accommodate trans men? This may be due to when I went through transition, but I've never seen much in the way of difference between the accommodation of trans women and trans men. Yes, there are weirdly 100s of thousands of hours more focus placed on defining and protecting the world (and women) from trans women these days. It's part of the reason why I'm here, because this place seems to be 'the most' concerned.

So if society decided you were a man, you’d accept you were a man? So how does society treat you in a way they wouldn’t treat a man? I mean, you won’t need maternity leave. You won’t go through the menopause, you won’t struggle with periods. So without using sexist stereotypes, tell us how you as a man are treated as a woman.

Helleofabore · Yesterday 20:08

NotAtMyAge · Yesterday 19:48

If you don't like it, you need to stop posting simplistic ideas which have already been proved not to work. Robin Hood is a folktale, not an economic policy.

It is like the doubling down that allowing male people in female single sex toilets and changing rooms is a workable compromise and should be accepted. When, it isn’t a workable compromise at all

When you start looking at raw numbers of women and girls harmed in any way, allowing any male person over the age of about 8 years old into female single sex spaces probably harms more women and girls. However, for those who say they care about both women and girls and that small group of males with trans identities, those women and girls are expendable in their opinion.

They are expendable because they are less likely to be high profile cases and people may have much less sympathy for a female person who is not a prisoner, or a rape crisis service user. Or because the science is so clear, a female athlete. Those cases gain overwhelming support and sympathy so it doesn’t work to declare that they should just accept male people’s inclusion.

But toilets and changing rooms, well apparently that is up for debate by a group of people who want to declare that they are ‘moderates’.

They don’t realise that the same argument applies to toilets and changing rooms though. So, if the argument is valid for those other purposes, it is logically incoherent that it is not valid for all.

The premises of physical advantage, risk of male attack, and for privacy and dignity applies to all situations. Yet a group of people wish to arbitrate which situations they apply to?

That same group also wish to arbitrate who is and isn’t transgender.

Yet, to them, these arbitration scenarios are kindness. But they are not kind at all.

Waitwhat23 · Yesterday 20:10

Boiledbeetle · Yesterday 20:05

You're right it wouldn't.

But you accept I AM ACTUALLY A BEETLE

🪲

Right?

No, Boiled. I am not coleopteraphobic but I do not believe the fake antennae headband you bought from a fancy dress shop makes you an actual beetle, even if you also choose to scurry and scavenge in leaf litter.

I fear my ban from the Bluestocking is imminent.

Boiledbeetle · Yesterday 20:14

Waitwhat23 · Yesterday 20:10

No, Boiled. I am not coleopteraphobic but I do not believe the fake antennae headband you bought from a fancy dress shop makes you an actual beetle, even if you also choose to scurry and scavenge in leaf litter.

I fear my ban from the Bluestocking is imminent.

faint i cant GIF

😯😫😳😵😡😠👿

nicepotoftea · Yesterday 20:17

onepostwonder · Yesterday 19:23

How are you defining female?

We're not going to agree. My personal understanding of female would align mostly with the sex realist definition. But diverge to believe sex is not solely a fixed chromosomal state nor a required list of body parts or physical experiences.

because it’s not, to me, about a belief. It’s about a fact - the fact that you are male, that you choose to have an atypical man’s gender presentation.

I cannot change how society treats me. That is a fact. MN has proven how silly it is to try to enumerate why. It just is. The facts surrounding my birth thankfully have very little impact on my life. It would be fucked up to think they would be relevant as an adult in any world.

why is it for women to accommodate this and not men?

Do men not accommodate trans men? This may be due to when I went through transition, but I've never seen much in the way of difference between the accommodation of trans women and trans men. Yes, there are weirdly 100s of thousands of hours more focus placed on defining and protecting the world (and women) from trans women these days. It's part of the reason why I'm here, because this place seems to be 'the most' concerned.

Do men not accommodate trans men? This may be due to when I went through transition, but I've never seen much in the way of difference between the accommodation of trans women and trans men.

Many men do indeed find it difficult to understand why women need sex specific rights and that the need for sex based rights is not symmetrical.

DialSquare · Yesterday 20:20

Waitwhat23 · Yesterday 20:10

No, Boiled. I am not coleopteraphobic but I do not believe the fake antennae headband you bought from a fancy dress shop makes you an actual beetle, even if you also choose to scurry and scavenge in leaf litter.

I fear my ban from the Bluestocking is imminent.

Leaf litter? Dung more like!

Boiledbeetle · Yesterday 20:21

DialSquare · Yesterday 20:20

Leaf litter? Dung more like!

I just go for the leaf litter when I'm on a health kick. Otherwise it's dung all the way.

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