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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

No rape took place outside Epsom church, claim police

223 replies

PILEALLTHEPILLSONTHEFLOOR · Yesterday 20:38

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c86ezy3qvjno

Either that or the police intimidated the victim into retracting her claims for the sake of quelling the riots.

'they now believe the woman concerned "sustained an accidental head injury" following a night out and made "a confused report".

Being gangraped is hardly the sort of thing a woman would get 'confused' about. This is absolutely outrageous.

A church built with stone. There is a sign in front of the building.

No rape took place outside Epsom church, say Surrey Police

The force says the woman concerned had injured her head on a night out and made 'a confused report'.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c86ezy3qvjno

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Soontobe60 · Today 07:49

PoppinjayPolly · Yesterday 21:32

Ah so the message is.. “women!!! If you will insist on being raped.. get it on camera or clearly it hasn’t happened!”” ?

If a woman is raped by 5 different people there would have been a myriad of evidence unless of course each of the men wore full PPE and condoms. That evidence isn’t collected and examined by the police alone. For any evidence to have ‘disappeared’ there would have to had been a whole load of people colluding with the police on this.
It is both plausible that a woman could have been raped by 5 men, and it is also plausible that she wasn’t and has ‘misremembered’.

GoodkneeBadKnee · Today 07:53

Wordsmithery · Today 01:33

This post has really brought out some nasty bigoted views hasn't it.

Shock

Soontobe60 · Today 07:58

PILEALLTHEPILLSONTHEFLOOR · Yesterday 22:30

Is getting gangraped something likely for a woman to just 'get wrong' and be confused about? Come on, they're trying to suppress the riots.

Our little female ditzy brains often confuse a rough night out for a gangrape

Edited

Don’t be so ridiculous. If there had been a shred of evidence, the investigation would have continued. You’re absolutely desperate for it to be true and for the police to be colluding in a cover up. My question is ‘why’? Why would you be so angry that a woman hasn’t been raped by 5 men as she first claimed? Surely you should be relieved that it didn’t actually happen?
Your agenda is very visible. You desperately want this to have happened and for the so-called perpetrators to have been ‘illegals’.

GoodkneeBadKnee · Today 07:58

A lot of you on here probably believe this is a "cover up" too. Eleanor Williams: The teenager who faked a grooming scandal also named real abusers | UK News | Sky News https://share.google/wjXzU6qDeJusrlz6p

Soontobe60 · Today 08:08

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

You need to get out more love.
Economic migrants are NOT ‘illegals’ as you so charmingly put it. Our NHS is staffed with many economic migrants for one example. Australia and Canada is full of economic migrants from the UK who were encouraged by their governments to move there after the war in the 60s. People who decide to move to places like Spain or France are economic migrants.

OhWise1 · Today 08:17

WaffleParty · Yesterday 22:20

It is worrying how many people are buying into this conspiracy bullshit.
There is obviously a very vulnerable woman at the centre of all this and this constant stirring the of the pot and calling for more information is incredibly insensitive.
The police have said all that they need to say - with the woman’s permission. Leave it be now and let the poor woman recover.

She's a liar who had wasted a lot of police resource!

DinosaurBlue · Today 08:19

Glad to see more voices of reason come on to the thread.

Dollymylove · Today 08:20

GoodkneeBadKnee · Today 07:58

A lot of you on here probably believe this is a "cover up" too. Eleanor Williams: The teenager who faked a grooming scandal also named real abusers | UK News | Sky News https://share.google/wjXzU6qDeJusrlz6p

There was clear and indisputable evidence that she lied about her whereabouts on several occasions and it was indisputable that she inflicted wounds upon herself. Verified by forensic experts. I hadn't hear anything about a known abuser though x

DownyBirch · Today 08:24

DaisyDooley · Today 00:46

Isn’t a free hotel, every meal, access to dentist and doctors without having to wait, medical treatment, £45 a week pocket money, bus pick up into town, clothes, driving lessons etc a ‘benefit’ when you haven’t paid a penny in?
If it isn’t a benefit then what is it and who is paying for it because we don’t offer that to ex servicemen.
if it isn’t a benefit can I have a week in a free hotel please?

Illegal immigrants don't receive any of that. As I pointed out, if they were stupid enough to turn up asking for a hotel room they would find themselves housed in a detention centre prior to deportation.

DownyBirch · Today 08:29

DaisyDooley · Today 00:56

Entering the country via the channel after throwing your passport into the channel isn’t an asylum seeker. They are an illegal immigrant. The article about the murderer who came here from Egypt and raped - is Egypt at war?

You are making an awful lot of racist generalisations there that don't actually accord with the facts. Guess what, when your home gets bombed or you're in imminent danger of arrest and torture for being gay or having the "wrong" political opinions, you can't always collect your passport. There is nothing in the rules on asylum that says it can only be claimed if your country of origin is at war.

You really would find it instructive if you made a little effort to educate yourself, and didn't automatically believe the Reform party and the Mail.

Soontobe60 · Today 08:32

LeftieRightsHoarder · Today 04:52

Yes, that’s pretty much what we’re being asked to believe. Or she was drunk, fell and banged her head and hallucinated a crowd of men attacking her.

Because otherwise, it’s the very common reality of a male gang attacking a young woman, who is then shamed into keeping quiet. Or in this case, retracting her complaint because she’s being blamed for people’s angry response.

It was the OP who claimed that she was being accused of self inflicting a head injury and have signs of a violent sexual assault. The news report says no such thing.

DownyBirch · Today 08:33

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

They weren't demonstrating about that. They didn't give one shit about the murdered and injured children, they simply saw a chance to be violent and make trouble for people with the wrong coloured skin. Look at the fools who tried to burn down a hostel including its staff.

You should go and talk to your local mosque and find out about all the things they do to help the community. The suggestion that they "breed" rapists is incredibly offensive.

DownyBirch · Today 08:38

LeftieRightsHoarder · Today 04:52

Yes, that’s pretty much what we’re being asked to believe. Or she was drunk, fell and banged her head and hallucinated a crowd of men attacking her.

Because otherwise, it’s the very common reality of a male gang attacking a young woman, who is then shamed into keeping quiet. Or in this case, retracting her complaint because she’s being blamed for people’s angry response.

Well, no, it isn't what we are being asked to believe. The police are not suggesting she made anything up, they are suggesting she was confused as a result of her head injury. And, significantly, only @PoppinjayPolly is claiming that she showed signs of other injuries, and she hasn't responded to any requests for information about where she got that from.

DinosaurBlue · Today 08:49

DaisyDooley · Today 00:46

Isn’t a free hotel, every meal, access to dentist and doctors without having to wait, medical treatment, £45 a week pocket money, bus pick up into town, clothes, driving lessons etc a ‘benefit’ when you haven’t paid a penny in?
If it isn’t a benefit then what is it and who is paying for it because we don’t offer that to ex servicemen.
if it isn’t a benefit can I have a week in a free hotel please?

Complete and utter nonsense.

Please back up those claims with evidence rather than spreading more nonsense.

DaisyDooley · Today 08:50

DownyBirch · Today 08:24

Illegal immigrants don't receive any of that. As I pointed out, if they were stupid enough to turn up asking for a hotel room they would find themselves housed in a detention centre prior to deportation.

They don’t get any of that ? Really?
I’ll just go to the hotel at the end of the road my mum Iives on then and tell the men in that hotel who get all of the benefits I quoted after coming here on a dinghy that Downy says you don’t get that.
Shabana Mahmood has vowed to get the illegal immigrants out of hotels and into -well, bourse next door to us I guess- by 2029.
They don’t ’ask’. They just get collected off the boats and taken to hotels!!
635 arrived on Tuesday. Couldn’t see a woman among all of the young men.
The ‘new arrivals’ in my sleepy market town barged into my (private) dentists last year while I was sat there waving laminated cards which gave them free & immediate access to NHS dentists and demanding to be seen “now”.
They laughed at the receptionist who had to get the male dentist to try and get them out while she phoned the useless police.
There were 5 of them and it was not a nice experience.
They are fucking laughing at us - and we are offering up our young to them by being so quiet as we are too scared of be8mg called racist.

Naunet · Today 08:52

Seeing how police like to turn a blind eye to grooming gangs and label the ittle girls as liars and sluts even when there is clear evidence, I'm not about to give them the benefit of the doubt with this.

Naunet · Today 08:57

Soontobe60 · Today 07:58

Don’t be so ridiculous. If there had been a shred of evidence, the investigation would have continued. You’re absolutely desperate for it to be true and for the police to be colluding in a cover up. My question is ‘why’? Why would you be so angry that a woman hasn’t been raped by 5 men as she first claimed? Surely you should be relieved that it didn’t actually happen?
Your agenda is very visible. You desperately want this to have happened and for the so-called perpetrators to have been ‘illegals’.

Don’t be so ridiculous. If there had been a shred of evidence, the investigation would have continued

Said with such conviction. Why didn't they investigate numerous grooming gangs when there was clear evidence then? Or Jimmy Saville for that matter?

MyThreeWords · Today 08:59

So the basic idea of this thread's conspiracy theory is that the police pressured a woman into retracting a rape claim because they wanted to make life easier for asylum seekers and wrongfoot anti-migrant protesters?

Yeah, right.

CornishDaughteroftheDawn · Today 09:00

IwantToRetire · Today 02:07

Sadly something FWR is getting a reputation for.

I happened to watch news reports from 2 different channels covering the first so called "demonstration" in Epsom. And it looked a bit over the top. A not very large group of men, who could have been taken for football fans, and a lot of police, with vans etc.. Streets closed and so on.

But what the interviewers did, and it really put it in perspective, was they interviewed women out shopping with all this macho posturing going on.

All the women said much the same. They sort of rolled their eyes at the men threatening violence claiming they were standing up for women's rights, in a sort of sigh about them men looking like idiots. But they also said as far as they knew there were no issues about asylum seekers in the area.

And all, and this was early on before today's statement, wished the woman well and that the police could get on with their job of finding who had attacked her and not have their time wasted by these knuckleheads.

I understand "the looking for a bit of a aggro" men turned up again a few days later.

What is really unpleasant is hijacking an incident that whatever the true facts are, must have and will continue to be a really unpleasant incident for the woman concerned.

None of us know and may never know what happened, but if there is to be a discussion on FWR (Feminism and Women's Rights) about this, that as feminist thought more about the woman, what it might be like to have had an experience like this. In the way some PP have been brave enough to share.

Not high jack this lived experience to soap box about a particular political view point. That's just exploitative.

As there have been threads started on FWR about the Green Party, the Labour Party, etc., why dont those who support some of the right wing parties set up a thread to talk through those politics.

That would be more honest - and for all any of us know, useful.

Edited

You do know that many of the tv stations carefully select the people they interview to ensure that their views reflect the message of the piece being written?

Just because some women in Epsom haven’t reported concerns doesn’t mean that allowing huge numbers of men from countries like Somalia and Afghanistan etc plus known criminals from Egypt is not having an impact on public safety

On one of the immigration channels currently being exploited, small boats, we have received an Egyptian terrorist who raped a woman in Hyde Park and now 2 Egyptian men (1 wanted for murder in Europe) and an Iranian convicted of gang rape in Brighton. There are clearly many others who have entered this country and are committing crimes.

As PP points out, why are men coming in from Egypt? The current system allows men who have thrown away their documents to arrive here and be placed into asylum hotels which are not secure and are also now being placed in HMOs in small communities. If these men wish to ‘disappear’ and avail themselves of the huge ‘cash only’ economy that has formed on our High Streets described in the BBC investigations.

A genuine asylum seeker would not throw away their documents - they would want to prove their case for asylum.

The government have a responsibility to protect our borders and keep us safe. They are failing in that and appear to be making no attempt to address it.

DaisyDooley · Today 09:05

DinosaurBlue · Today 08:49

Complete and utter nonsense.

Please back up those claims with evidence rather than spreading more nonsense.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/deng-chol-majek-murder-rhiannon-whyte-b2851649.html

What was Rhiannon doing working there if the illegal men coming here don’t get hotels?
What do you think is happening when MPs ask the Home Secretary what is happening with the tens of thousands of men being put up in hotels? Do you think they are just making it up and she’s saying the government will stop putting these ‘arrivals’ in hotels just for the fun of it? Do you think they are lying??

How women can be more concerned about these men who have come here illegally than our own daughters fills me with horror and shame,
Frankly I don’t give a shit if 99% of these men are ‘kind’. I don’t want to risk any of them coming, How many rapes and murders is too many?
How many more women sacrificed on the alter of the left wing mantra of ‘We must not be racist at any cost’?
The cost is US and our daughters!!
You might be prepared to pay the price with your child.
I’m not.
Can you remember where ‘be kind’ got us with trans identifying men?
Well this ‘be kind’ is ten thousand times worse.
The line liked by a Muslim female MP to a victim of the Muslim raping gangs
“just shut up for the sake of diversity” springs to mind.

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DaisyDooley · Today 09:08

MyThreeWords · Today 08:59

So the basic idea of this thread's conspiracy theory is that the police pressured a woman into retracting a rape claim because they wanted to make life easier for asylum seekers and wrongfoot anti-migrant protesters?

Yeah, right.

Because of course that never happened in Rotherham did it when people including social workers, teachers etc were reporting Muslim raping gangs,
And look at us 25 years later.
Every city and town seems to possess one of these ‘never happened here’ raping gangs with tens of thousands of victims who all seem to be white women &girls.

DinosaurBlue · Today 09:09

DaisyDooley · Today 09:05

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/deng-chol-majek-murder-rhiannon-whyte-b2851649.html

What was Rhiannon doing working there if the illegal men coming here don’t get hotels?
What do you think is happening when MPs ask the Home Secretary what is happening with the tens of thousands of men being put up in hotels? Do you think they are just making it up and she’s saying the government will stop putting these ‘arrivals’ in hotels just for the fun of it? Do you think they are lying??

How women can be more concerned about these men who have come here illegally than our own daughters fills me with horror and shame,
Frankly I don’t give a shit if 99% of these men are ‘kind’. I don’t want to risk any of them coming, How many rapes and murders is too many?
How many more women sacrificed on the alter of the left wing mantra of ‘We must not be racist at any cost’?
The cost is US and our daughters!!
You might be prepared to pay the price with your child.
I’m not.
Can you remember where ‘be kind’ got us with trans identifying men?
Well this ‘be kind’ is ten thousand times worse.
The line liked by a Muslim female MP to a victim of the Muslim raping gangs
“just shut up for the sake of diversity” springs to mind.

Hotels, yes - these people need somewhere to stay whilst their claims are being processed. Would you rather they sleep on the streets instead and we deal with a growing homelessness problem?

And seeing as they aren’t allowed to work whilst claims are processed (which take a very long time due to the relentless cuts in public services), how do you expect them to buy or do anything if they aren’t given “pocket money”?

But clothes?

Driving lessons?

Going straight to the front of the queue for dentists and doctors?

Where’s the evidence?

YourAmplePlumPoster · Today 10:25

The case involving asylum seekers in Brighton has been thoroughly investigated by police and resulted in a prosecution and conviction. I repeat: what makes people think the police are lying or covering up in this particular case?
Three men guilty of 'callous' Brighton beach rape - BBC News https://share.google/huvQsE09NfTxOFmXK

Three pictures of men's faces up close. They all have brown eyes.

Three men guilty of 'callous' Brighton beach rape

The men, who are all asylum seekers, had denied targeting the woman in the early hours of October 4.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg090pe65vo

CapacityBrown · Today 10:36

Whether this case was false or not, these stories usually come out of areas that have quickly developed a history of a lot of offences taking place and being ignored by police.

Happyjoe · Today 10:39

It's a very sad state of affairs to read people disbelieve the police because it doesn't suit their narrative rather than just be relieved this poor woman wasn't raped multiple times.