Transgender hate on mum's net

[Steph2002]

I'm just wondering, I see so much hate on here about transgender woman and not a lot about transgender men. Does everyone on mum's net hate Transgender women and if so why? I don't mind sharing a toilet space with a transgender woman in fact my best friend is a transgender woman and she is the nicest person you could ever wish to meet and will protect any woman no matter where they are. I would hate to be sharing a toilet with a hairy masculine transgender man, which seems the way people want to go why? Am I the only person on here that supports trans gender women, if so I need to leave. How many people that hate Transgender women have actually met one and had issues with one I'd love to know.

You missed they're all gay apart from the lesbian straight ones who don't fancy us bitter old hags anyway.

Oh and they are lovely, lovely to a man woman, and are the not lovely ones Bryson and his leggings, our 'lovely' Adia and his rolling pin etc aren't really TW but we aren't allowed to Gate keep so they are.

I don’t want ANY man in a women’s single sex space.

it’s not difficult. Use the space that aligns with your sex, not your gender.

why do men have such an issue with obeying the law and why do women facilitate their breaking the law?

“Many” trans women are attracted to men. Hmm.

The majority (according to psychiatrists working in the field) are straight men who want to present as female for a variety of reasons. These are the ones that insist that female lesbians should accept them in their dating pool, dating apps, and sleep with them. They are attracted to women. They expect their wives to become “lesbian” after transition. This is a hugely common phenomenon.

The minority are the “hyper feminine gay men” who prefer to present as female but are attracted to men.

And fewer than 10% of trans women have genital surgery.

Leaving aside the flaws in the logic, I don't think this premis is supported by stats. Only 20% of TIM identify as 'heterosexual', which to them means attraction to men. 30% identify as 'lesbian' (so they are straight men, if you will) the rest are bi/queer.
So even if you believe the level of safety and privacy woman have from men should be dependent on the man's sexuality, that still means 80% of TIM wouldn't meet your bar.
The list of exclusions is getting ever longer. Hirsute TW, muscular TW, TW with penises, TW who aren't lovely, TW who are not exclusively attracted to men...
By the time we're done so few will meet the criteria we might as well cut to the chase and agree to exclude them all.

It would be helpful if the TWs and their rainbow waving supporters could provide us with a checklist to run through to assess whether that TW who's trying to get into our single sex space is allowed or not.

I mean, I tend to work on the assumption that they're all blokes so none of them get in, but from this thread there are some absolutely lovely ones out there and as long as we don't go around flashing our fannies (or penises, in the case of the TW) at each other it'll all be fine. The tricky thing is telling the difference between the nice ones and the not nice ones - so a wee checklist would be grand.

@AidaP - I know you've spent hours and hours on MN extolling us all to be kind and just let you into our spaces because you deserve it what with being a woman and all, but I'm afraid you don't make the cut now that you've publicly exposed yourself as being a Not Nice TW. Soz.

You are fixated on toilets.

it is all or nothing. If you let TW into the loos you are saying they are women. If they are women then they are women in all aspects of life from jobs, sports, healthcare. That is why the SC came to the conclusion it did. You have to have one approach for everything. You can’t start carving out some spaces are ok and some aren’t.

That's it exactly.

Men can't be women in some instances, but not in others. This is an all or nothing issue.

Regardless, the argument that women get raped in other places so who cares if they are at greater risk in toilets now is absolutely disgusting

It doesn't though. Because it's not about being trans. It's about being male.

Men commit 98% of all sex crime, 90% of all violent crime. Statistically men who identify as women more sexual assaults than men who don't.

And that's because of a paraphilia called autogynephilia.

Back in the mists of time, transsexuals were largely gay men who felt their femininity would be more acceptable if they said they were women.

unfortunately, the Internet, as is it's habit, has allowed the other cohort of men who say they are women, autogynephiles to entirely engulf the original homosexual transsexuals.

AGP men are largely straight, often married, and are driven, to really quite extreme lengths by their fetish. (see the transwidow's threads on this very site). They are highly misogynistic.

There is often a conflict if people know homosexual transsexuals, but listen to women who know autogynephiles.

They are not the same. They are, however, both using women.

And, of course, if you admit one cohort, you admit the other.

This is about men being incandescent with rage that there are women who are disobeying them, and women who are handmaidens, as some always have been.. If anyone thinks otherwise, they are fooling themselves.

Trans people are physically at risk from men, thats where the violence is, yet their rage is directed at women for arguing back, saying no and wanting to have some spaces just for women. Biological women.

If transwonen were women, nobody would give a fuck how they felt and we sure as shit wouldn't be seeing a tiny percentage of people demanding and getting control and feelings priority and making rape and death threats while claiming victim hood.

Him. Khelif is a man. Everyone including him knows this. Catch up at the back

We also know that abuse and attacks happen in loos and changing rooms. It's dismissed as trivial by some but that disregards the experiences of women and girls who have been assaulted.

I mean there are whole.fetish groups devoted to filming and photographing themselves in womens loos and changing rooms.

Its dismissed as utterly inconsequential for women but cast as life-or-death for trans identifying men.

Flashing has long been treated as.something ridiculous and a bit daft and women have long been ridiculed for objecting to it. But we know now that exposure as a paraphilia is a red flag - Wayne Cousens being a well publicised example.

This post is illogical.

On one hand we are being told we can want female single sex spaces just based on them being only for female people.

Then we are being lectured on articulating ‘why’. This seems to be really disconnected thinking.

Of course female people want to have spaces that exclude male people for many reasons. It is only partly because of the physical risks, but similarly it is actually illogical to dismiss those risks as also being real.

Yes, female people face risks of attack at home. And everywhere. There have been known attacks by male people in toilets. It is absurd to deny this has happened or that the risk is not there. Just because female person might live with her known attacker doesn’t mean she has to also accept risk when she is in a publicly accessed space.

“The silly things that they will try and assault people or that they are inherently bad is what makes you seem ridiculous and me shut you off totally as paranoid and in need of mental health professionals.”

Let me make it really simple for you. Any male person who enters a female toilet knowing the law says they shouldn’t be there, full knowing it may cause the female people inside is not respecting female people’s boundaries or the law. So please do tell us what is the right word to describe a male person who does this? I don’t think the label predator is far off. You might have another word you would like to use.

Tell us again how it is ‘paranoid’ and what was it ‘in need of mental health professionals’ to recognise that a male person entering into a female toilet with full knowledge that the law has been clarified and that they might distress female people with their presence should not be there?

And noone said he was trans, and he does sometimes wear make up and he had failed a sex screening test but apart from that we are just big ol' meanies.

Women are silly for thinking a group of men, proven to be a higher risk than other men and who knowingly break the law to enter women’s toilets, may attack them. But men are totally fine for thinking other men will rape them as soon as they step into a men’s toilet….

@Bigwelshlamb transgender people are not one group of people unfortunate enough to be ‘born in the wrong’ body. At the most basic level they consist of men with a paraphilia I.e. autogynaephiles, gender non- conforming children who were like that from a very young age, the majority of whom would turn out to be gay and a new cohort of autistic young people who felt wrong in the world and found the answer on the internet I.e. if you don’t feel like a boy, then you must be a girl or vice versa. And this last group is most likely to be a part of a social contagion, as seen by the dramatic numbers of young girls turning up at gender clinics in recent years. Hopefully, that trend is declining now but there are still a large number of autistic young people caught up in it as they haven’t yet caught on and have rigid thinking.
There is so much more to this topic than you know. Please, if you’re going to post on the subject, inform yourself beforehand. Because the ‘be kind’ movement has done so much harm to this last group of young people and their families it goes without saying that everybody should be kind and accepting of everybody but don’t mistake affirmation for kindness because for a minority of young people, it leads to irreversible harm.

Sorry.

full knowing it may cause the female people inside

should be

full knowing it may cause the female people inside to be distressed

gender non- conforming children who were like that from a very young age

Why are these children being told they, and everyone else, must pretend they are the opposite sex rather than sex stereotypes are just that and there is no reason why boys cannot do things culture has associated with being feminine, or girls masculine things? How is it ‘progressive’ to prioritise a system that says we are defined by regressive stereotypes?

And that's how we know they are men. So privileged that even on munsnet a man pretending to be a woman can make threats of the most extreme sexual violence against women and not be banned, whilst women's comments are routinely policed and deleted.

It is also strange how every time the BBC actually discusses this issue they seem to unerringly identify which sex they want to invite to the discussion,

Women wanting to protect their rights is not hatred.
Concerns around transgender people are based on the potential threat they poise — and it is males who commit rapes and most sexual and other forms of violence.

There are plenty of lovely men. My uncle is one and so is my neighbour. All the male teachers that my children have had have been delightful.
None of them belong in women's spaces though. Same with transwomen.

I've posted about this many times before but when I worked in communications, I fell pregnant with now almost 7 year old DS.

I had a horrific pregnancy, didn't know at the time I was hypermobile, but my joints went all loose, but so did my bowels and bladder, as well as the worst hyperemesis you could possibly imagine. I spent weeks at home so I could be close to a toilet, not getting paid, getting into debt because I wasn't being paid, and my boss agreed that if I could just make it on site, even if I spent it all in the bathroom vomiting, they would pay me, so I raked myself into work. Every vomit made me gush urine, and sometimes poo because of the abdominal contractions. I was rapidly losing weight and constantly dehydrated.

I often had to strip naked in the toilets, to change into some adult nappies just so I could vomit.

We had a resident trans person who would spend their breaks and make frequent excuses to use the same bathrooms as me, where they would take video calls, voice recordings and masturbate in the cubicle next to me. When I raised it with management I was told she isn't trans, she is a woman, she definitely couldn't have been ejaculating semen next to me, or stroking a penis, and if I take this further I would be doxxing someone and it is against the law to out someone as trans before they're ready to come out themselves. Instead of support to get away from this pervert, I was threatened with job loss and also potentially criminal proceedings.

The supreme court judgement hadn't been done yet, and my union supported my employers stance.

I had to spend the rest of my pregnancy vomiting at home, sinking further and further into debt as the debt I accrued gathered interest. On top of that I developed quite severe PTSD and struggled to even leave the house or put clothes on throughout my maternity leave.

How dare you come on here and accuse women of hating trans people, when you yourself couldn't differentiate between a safe and friendly trans person and a predator if it came to it, and lord help you if it happened in your workplace when you are at your most vulnerable. You couldn't guarantee you have your employers support, you might think you can but when it comes to crunch time you'd be shocked at the position they would take.

It doesn't matter what their pronouns are. What matters is the risk they pose to others, and if you can't say 100% without a shadow of a doubt that they all collectively as a homogenous group that are demanding access to women's single sex spaces are safe and non-predatory then there is risk and that risk is inquantifiable and therefore they should not be in women's single sex spaces.

It's fine if you don't care, but have a care for other women who might find themselves in need of help preserving their safety and dignity and stop assuming everybody has pure intentions regardless of what space they're in.

Yes and it is happening on several threads atm.
I wonder who is deleting certain posts?
It certainly seems to be swift and targeted.

You said hysteria was being spread here. Close enough.

I applaud your efforts. Pointing out the obvious, however, doesn’t seem to work with the #bekind crowd.

They are so fixated on I’m fine with sharing/best friend, colleague, child is trans/you’ve never met one/they’re all lovely/it’s cis men that’s the problem/more likely to be assaulted by someone you know/you’re all mean/they’re living their authentic lives/gender means something tangible but I can’t explain what it is/I refuse to engage because you’re all haters etc etc that it’s unthinkable for them to reflect beyond their narrow and aproblematic framing of the issue.

But what it comes down to, is that by removing how other women feel entirely out of the discussion, the primacy of the power play and control over/of those who disagree becomes evident.