Trans people are more obsessed with JK Rowling then they think she is with them

[BlueSkiesAndSunshiiine]

It's strange, isn't it? They really can't keep her name out of their mouths. Very baffling.

all humans are a potential threat to all humans. Statistically men are the biggest threat within this group.
can we focus on why that is rather than a minority group that are determined to distract from the main issue, vawg?

You can’t though. Not really. Even in prisons some staff will have to be male. Cleaners in toilets might be male. If men want to do this they have plenty of opportunities besides pretending to be transgender.
do you see my point?

Yes it probably is sexist to feel that we need such strict gender roles that people find experiences as living as the other so distressing they need to change it

What?

To clarify, @butterfly231:

Good men stay out so bad men stand out.

By trying to use women’s toilets, pure nice gentle genuine trans-identifying men in women’s toilets make it more dangerous for women in those toilets, whether or not you think that those trans-identifying men are themselves dangerous.

They make it dangerous because they make it so that the actually dangerous men who are wearing women’s clothing for nefarious reasons no longer stand out and furthermore no one is allowed to challenge their presence, in case they might be one of the genuine ones.

Do you see the problem yet?

They put signs up in female toilets to say if a male cleaner is in there. So that if you dont want to use it at that time, you can wait.

Why do they do that?

Well if men and women were truly equal, would gender or sex even need to be a thing? Would it matter? If society was open and non sexist, would transgender be an issue?
like there’s evidence everyone is a little bisexual (not going to evidence this, but Kinsey is a good example).
if this was the norm, would homophobia and sexism still be issues?
I like questioning: like you said just because it’s the way it is doesn’t mean it’s right

They could put rainbow flags on toilets to say trans friendly and if you don’t want to use you don’t have to.

You mean truly equal like women start killing their intimate or ex intimate male partners at a rate of 2-3 a week?

No I’m going more down the utopian route.
what if there was no vawg? How would society look then?

What does 'trans friendly mean? All women who say they are men can still use the female toilets, no flag needed?

Welcoming to people who identify as trans

Now these are good questions.

Here's a thought experiment for you.

If we just stopped differentiating between men and women tomorrow, would sexism just..... go away? Would the porn sites close? Would female bodied people suddenly be half of boards and male bodied people do half of childcare? Would the voyeurs no longer get a thrill from peeping, the abusers no longer feel the need to support their egos by dominance and control, the rapists give up raping?

No. Because society has inertia and sexism is deeply baked into how men see us and how we see ourselves, into the ways we relate, into the structures and norms we live by.

And that means that for now, while we fight those structural and individual sexisms, we as female people do need sex specific support to help us manage the reality of being female in a still.sexist society.

I think it's a great idea to have flags or messages on mens toilets to say transwomen are safe there.

This utopia is never going to happen.

The only way this utopia would happen is if they removed every violent person by killing them. Which is itself violent.

Until then we need safeguarding. It is good that you understand that men being allowed free reign would only happen when men stopped demanding free reign. It is a self unfulfilling prophesy.

.

They already are, I just described it to you.

Women who identify as trans are people too.

Right and my argument is isolating people who would help you fight it and safeguard and getting into beef with them on social media, distracts from the real issue and makes it about semantics rather than safeguarding

@butterfly231

I know the conversation is moving fast, but do you have any thoughts on this?

Prison staff and cleaners are known to their employers. Prison staff will have had pre-employment checks. If they don’t do their jobs properly they’ll be disciplined or fired.

They’re not randoms who’ve wandered in off the street.

But some men will put on a wig, some lipstick and a dress and pretend to be a woman just to commit crimes against women. For some it adds to the pleasure they derive from committing crimes.

How do we work out which men in the women's toilets claiming to be women are pretending to be women for nefarious reasons and which ones are men pretending to be women because of their internal womanly feelings?

As there is no way to know then men claiming to be women ALL have to stay out just like the rest of the men have to.

And give over with the but but but some men have to go in women's spaces for their jobs and men have plenty of opportunities. It does you no favours as it's a very lazy defense as to why some men should be allowed into women's spaces.

I just think if a man wants to follow you into a public toilet and assault you, a little picture on the door isn’t going to stop him.
and pretending it does gives a false sense of security

Actually it’s a passionate defence of dbs checks - which you could use. That would cut out a lot of the wrong ‘uns as you call them

Or maybe the men no matter how they identify could just use the bloody gents.

Are you saying trans identifying men will only support women if there's something in it for them? That their support for us is conditional on us lowering our boundaries and protections for them?

Hmmm.

I’m saying that when you have shared oppressors, aligning with others who have your interests is prudent and insulting them is not.