Why is sex the only protected characteristic that people want to, or are ‘allowed’ to, self identify into? by

[SingleSexMattersInCharity]

This has been something that I mull over. Why is sex the only PC that society allows people to self id into with very little checks and balances? You can get your marker on your driving licence changed very easily.

disability: yes, I realise that people can self identify as disabled but if they want benefits associated with disability there is, quite frankly, a horrendous procedure to go through in order get benefits.

Age: if someone wanted to be older to get pension they wouldn’t be accepted or alternatively if they wanted to attend nursery but were 20 they would not be allowed. Think of the Scottish case of the man who pretended to be younger to be in high school again.

maternity: women who fake pregnancy are absolutely derided.

race: we all think of the obvious case of the women who faked being black but I’m also thinking about when you want to change your citizenship and the expensive, complicated and time consuming process you have to go through to achieve a change of citizenship.

Campaigners have fought for easy, cheap and dignified changes to “changing sex” (not possible as we know) but other PCs have very expensive, complicated and dehumanising process.

why is the PC of sex different?

I've been thinking about it for a decade whereas you are unable to even understand that men have penises which they use to rape.

Men - the people with those penises - have power and authority over women so not one should EVER have been placed in a female jail.

You seem to think it is 'obvious' that they should so it is on you to explain why women matter less than men.

And have you even seen Karen White? Do you even know who you are defending here? There is no nuance to this.

You can't do this because you are incoherently defending rapists.

You keep saying it nuanced but it doesn't appear you have thought about this at all other than people who think trans identified men shouldn't be in womens prisons must be transphobic.

Male prisoners can be protected in the male estate.

I’m not defending rapists. I’m just saying I’m not going to put this person in a position where they can be raped. Solitary confinement is an option. Trans prisons are options. There’s not just women’s prisons.
i cannot condone the rape or sexual abuse of anyone no matter who they are or what they’ve done because that would make me as bad as them in my book. I want to make it clear I’m not defending rapists. He has no right to rape anyone but he also has the right to be not raped too. I can’t do him for something but then say it’s ok when I sanction it for you. Do you see what I’m saying? I’m not defending rapists. But I will defend anyone’s right not be raped, even if they have sexually abused someone else.
and my reasoning for this is it’s a slippery slope if we do. It has to be a blanket no on sexual abuse to protect women and girls.

I’m not defending rapists. I’m refusing to condone sexual abuse of any type, and this includes putting people at risk of it no matter what they’ve done. Becuase like I said it has to be a blanket no to protect everyone

In 1813 Elizabeth Fry was prompted by a French-American Quaker, Stephen Grellet, who advocated sex segregation of prisons in Russia on his visit to the then Russian Empire, now Russia and Ukraine. She visited and was appalled at the conditions of women and girls at Newgate Prison. She was the first woman to give evidence to a House of Commons select committee about the sexual degradation of women and girls at the hands of both male prisoners and warders.This led directly to the Gaols Act 1823, which was introduced and supported by the Home Secretary Robert Peel.

Segregation by birth sex may have been a rough-and-ready solution but it was massively successful. Why would you want to mess with it by changing to some individually tailored BS? We don't have the resources for that, and in any case the sex-and-violence propensities of the sexes are so bimodal they're verging on binary. Keeping them separate is an easy win for safety.

No I don’t think this but I think people who refuse to use people’s chosen pronouns but have no problem respecting a chosen name are a bit transphobic, yes

So if you have a biological man who removed his penis and had a medically constructed vagina where would you put him?
because they didn’t exist in 1813 but they exist now.

It has to be a blanket NO of who to defend who?

It has to be a blanket no on sexual violence of EVERYONE to protect EVERYONE.
it can’t be ‘that person raped someone therefore now it’s a free for all to rape them’. Because then it becomes a slippery slope.

You see it’s not nuanced.

A women who identifies as a man and wants to be treated as a man shouldn’t get to choose their rights. It’s not a Pik B’ Mix.

Men in men’s prisons. Safeguarded appropriately of course. And women in women’s prison. Dysphoria discounted.

Who decides on where the boundaries are of ‘looking like a woman’? Should women who don’t have massive boobs and blonde flicky hair get put in male prisons because they don’t look womanly enough ?

Did you know that men get sexually abused by other men in prison even if they don’t have a pretend vagina?

And what about the well known phenomenon of men suddenly realising they are in fact a woman when it comes to being sentenced?

There is no nuance to this. Men go to men’s prisons and that’s it.

So you agree with me? You think third spaces might be a viable option?

It’s not news to anyone that inmates in men’s prisons are male criminals. Many of them violent. Many of them also vulnerable. Vulnerable should not be confused with safe.

Determining relative vulnerability of prisoners and putting in appropriate measures is a job for the male estate. It would be a mistake to assume that a man is automatically in the ‘most vulnerable’ category if he says he thinks he’s a woman.

So I should refer to Gabriel Alejandro Gentile rather then Barbie Kardashian to be less "transphobic " when using correct sex pronouns?

A man with an orifice would be housed in the men’s estate. Being a man is how we segregate.

Men also have anuses and mouths that can be raped. A surgical hole is most likely less satisfying than the alternatives.

no but you know some of these people have surgery of like breasts and genitals and it’s very very convincing? then what?

I think most of the women here would fully support transwomen being put in protected wings of men's prisons. The same as other at risk prisoners such as child molesters and crooked coppers. We just don't want them in women's prisons. I'm pretty sure there is already one prison in the U.K that has a trans wing.

He’s still a man so he goes to the men’s prison.

And I thought that trans people had always been with us, so it is extremely disrespectful to say there were none in 1813.

But if they no longer have a penis, in the UK they can’t legally rape women. What’s your view on this?

It’s not. The surgery didn’t exist. Trans people did but the surgery didn’t so this is a new problem

No third spaces are not an option. If you have prison free for all for feelings then everyone will identify into it.

You’re clearly new to this topic because the vast majority of sex offenders change their ‘trans’ identity after conviction to attempt to get into women’s prisons.

Well I think that would soon stop if they were told sorry this isn’t an option but we have this third space.

I don’t object to men in women’s prisons because they will rape women.

I object to men in women’s prisons because they are men. They have significant biological advantage, with dysphoria they are suffering from mental illness and as they are men they violate the privacy and dignity of some to single sex spaces.

You’d get everyone wanting a third space.

Because men’s prisons aren’t that nice as you’ve pointed out.