Dumb question possibly

[canitbeanything]

Are the hormones that transgender females encouraged to change / reduce the same as the ones middle aged women are encouraged to increase to prevent bone damage and dementia ?

I’d imagine for precocious puberty no one says to a young child you thinks their trans they can’t have the same PBs that the other children have for this problem. It’s a silly argument. The idea is that when they go through puberty later any side effects will be resolved naturally.

No. It is different.

Firstly, there are physical negative implications for future health that are very carefully balanced before deciding to use these drugs on female children.

Then the major difference is that after a period, natural puberty is allowed to resume. This is not the case in someone who halts their natural puberty and never finishes that natural puberty process because they have taken hormones in quantities of the opposite sex category for their body.

We do have decades of the negative impact of the same drugs taken for precocious puberty on women decades later. Life limiting side effects and potentially life shortening side effects. Lupron side effects are quite well documented by the patients who have these side effects.

I think what the OP is asking is whether trans identified girls reduce their oestrogen and progesterone compared to menopausal women who are recommended to increase it.

I understand that testosterone is responsible for a whole host of health issues in young girls. But my question is do they continue to take puberty blockers to reduce their oestrogen and progesterone, or do they stop once they take testosterone?

And does the oestrogen and progesterone then return?

I'm guessing they do, but in lower amounts than those needed to produce puberty?

Does anyone know?

really? I thought AidaP was a female ninny, not a male ninny. Not that it makes much difference.

My favourite 'cis': If you are on a bus, a public transport vehicle, and it malfunctions and you're stuck as it waits on the side of the road for assistance, it has become a public cisport vehicle.

AidaP But... we do it routinely. For women that's testosterone supplements which easily take you near baseline male levels ..

Given that the lowest normal level of testosterone in men is 300 nanograms per decilitre, and women's normal levels are 15–70 nanograms per decilitre, a woman taking supplements that increases her testosterone levels to 300ng/dL would be in serious trouble!

I'm surprised by your very confident assertion of 'medical facts' which don't stand up to even the most basic scrutiny.

I would hate to join a discussion without having first checked my facts from reliable sources, but that's just me, I don't like running the risk of making an eejit of myself if I can help it

Thank you

Why don't you ask the poster that very question?

The poster has been on this board for quite a while with threads going back a year or so.

I don’t know the exact cocktail but I do know it fucks up their health long term.

Sympathy @PeaceWhite, it was a similar situation that moved me from vague tolerance to 'hold on, what the hell is happening?' about a decade ago. The entire ideology is evil.

I would hate to join a discussion without having first checked my facts from reliable sources, but that's just me, I don't like running the risk of making an eejit of myself if I can help it

Quite.

I’d rather hear it from a wider number of people than the poster that just called themself “mom” when a man cannot be a mom/mother. More likely to get the truth.

I have a 30-something trans man in my wider family and she's not in great health at all. It's very upsetting to see her using mobility aids when she was perfectly healthy five years ago.

Jeez.

Though some people here are doctors or health professionals and some even have doctorates in science subjects, you know.

OP

It is really difficult to work out how all the negative side effects are dismissed when you consider the very fact that a child just going through puberty is then put into menopause!

There are articles with mothers describing the menopause symptoms that their teenaged daughters are suffering with.

And why are they going through menopause? Because these children have been convinced that they need to go through extreme body modifications so their bodies 'fit' their gender identity. An identity.

You are so polite and restrained in your responses to unscientific bollocks, Marie.

yep especially considering the

”But... we do it routinely.”

is never a good defence of any action or inaction shown to cause harm.

Martin Luther : 'ich kann nicht anders'
Marlene Dietrich: '🎶I can't hhhhellllp it'
My mother: 'If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all'
😁

Yep - as in blood-letting was once routine…,,

I hear you.

How much trust can you have in someone who will tell you that they believe that a male person is a 'female' person?

Nail on head. 😊

children whose puberty has started too early for their bodies

to be specific, because legally people up to age of 17 can be described and 'children', afaik precocious puberty is only regarded as something where it is possibly appropriate to cause hormonal delay is where the pubertal signs start before the age of 8, and delaying to 9 or 10 may make it easier for the child to cope.

And even that is now seen as a risky option.

Similarly, electric shock treatment, which is still used very occasionally when all other less harmful treatments for severe mental illness have been found ineffective. But the risks of the well known negative side effects are taken into account, as are using puberty blockers for precocious puberty.

"And body was designed for both hormones btw, it's made of singular mold, this is another thing well understood and tested over decades that the body will do by whatever hormones it is introduced with. It's quite marvelous really how little of a fuck the body minds."

Fucking hell. This is grim reading.

Did we ever need another example of just how dismissive of female people's health male people are?

Side effects to puberty blockers and male levels of testosterone on female bodies.... "It's quite marvelous really how little of a fuck the body minds."

It's quite marvelous really how little of a fuck the body minds.

When you see it, you cannot unsee it.

Lobotomies were celebrated treatments once.

The posts using 'cis' are a good reminder that the term 'cis' is meaningless because the term includes any male person who has a DSD yet has a body that is **formed around the production of small gametes that has any degree of sensitivity to any of the testosterone that body produces.

Using this word, cis, then means there is no word left for female people.

Because even male people are now saying they are also ‘female’ . When ^^ female means only a person of the sex category where that person's body has been formed around the production of large gametes, regardless of whether the body does, has or ever will produce those large gametes. ie that requires the presence of ovaries or ovarian tissue - never testes.

In fact, we now have examples of many male people declaring that they are female people. So even the word for female has become meaningless in that sense.

But 'cis' is a* *word that was repurposed from its original usage and is meaningless for the purpose of discussing female people in its current usage. It has been used in academic papers as well in an attempt at using inclusive language which then renders the papers meaningless because the term is not describing a unique grouping of human bodies, even when it claims to be doing just that.

To see how this works, we have been told that 'girl' and 'woman' both now include:

1 Male person who has been incorrectly registered as a female at birth, but has a male body **.
2 Any male person has now claimed a transgender identity using those labels.
3 And any person who has a female body ^^.

Under the label of 'girl' and 'woman', extreme transgender activists have been telling us for years that those labels break down into two types of girls or women:

Cis and Transwomen/transgirls.

These terms mean:
Cis
= (1) Male person who has been incorrectly registered as a female at birth, but has a male body **
and
= (3) Any person who has a female body^^
Trans
= (2) Any male person has now claimed a transgender identity using those labels.

Therefore there is no unique word to mean female people who have a body ^^ formed around the production of large gametes.

Cis is meaningless as a unique description for female people and it always was. It is also misogynistic because it leaves female people with no unique word for their needs.

And so no, not even those labelled ‘cis’ women are ‘monolith’ because that category also includes male people ‘assigned female at birth’.