Dumb question possibly

[canitbeanything]

Are the hormones that transgender females encouraged to change / reduce the same as the ones middle aged women are encouraged to increase to prevent bone damage and dementia ?

It's the same estrogen and possibly progesterone, yep.

thanks

That’s sort of what I thought but find it quite horrific to accept that’s what young people are encouraged to do to themselves given the pressure older women are to supplement - I wanted to be sure of my facts before spouting off

What's horrific in taking hormones? You take them for menopause because your body doesn't produce enough of it anymore on it's own, that's all HRT is. Not sure why are you calling it horrific.

The cross-sex hormones that men take are generally prescribed in much larger amounts than those prescribed as HRT for women. The clue is in the name ‘Hormone Replacement Therapy’.

Men are not replacing hormones they should have, they are taking hormones they do not need at all and are consequently at risk of much more severe side effects.

Except.. You do know that men have estrogen, and women have testosterone right? And increased doses are routinely prescribed to non-trans patients to elevate the levels of both.

It's really basic stuff you can google.

What do you mean by transgender female?

I think the OP is pointing out that women are often encouraged to boost oestrogen in later life because of the negative health impacts of menopause, but there are people quite blasé about young women and girls blocking hormones.

I don’t need to ‘google’ I know that men have very small amounts of ‘female’ hormones, and women have very small amounts of ‘male’ hormones.

They are not routinely prescribed at all.

The large amounts of cross-sex hormones prescribed to both men and women are dangerous. Go google it.

Hormone blockers work extremely differently to treatment of menopause though, and pausing puberty is another thing done routinely on non trans patients with well known and easily manageable risks.

None of this is new, this existed for over four decades in mainstream medicine.

It's a somewhat different thing to supplement natural hormones in a body that has spent a lifetime generating them, and was designed from conception to run on them - and to supply them into a body never designed to use them in that way. Obviously.

The medical needs of women needing hormone supplementation to treat medical problems, and the medical needs of men who wish to use artificial hormones to create some cosmetic changes to their body for psychological reasons, are two entirely separate things.

‘Pausing puberty’ is not done ‘routinely’. It is done as a last resort in children suffering from precocious puberty and for as short a time as possible due to the serious side effects of the drugs used.

You might fool some readers with your pretendy medical knowledge, but don’t bother trying to fool those of us who know our stuff and have spent years reading up on these medical issues. This is not Reddit.

But... we do it routinely. For women that's testosterone supplements which easily take you near baseline male levels, and for men estrogen patches to say manage prostate conditions which also take you into the baseline levels.

And body was designed for both hormones btw, it's made of singular mold, this is another thing well understood and tested over decades that the body will do by whatever hormones it is introduced with. It's quite marvelous really how little of a fuck the body minds.

No, medically preventing/delaying puberty has not gone beautifully and without impact for children, the medical impacts can be severe and lifelong. Having listened to at least one MNetter explain the lifelong medical problems they've had, I think 'easily manageable risks' is a bit blue sky to put it mildly.

I think you are confusing commonly with routinely. Among people with condition requiring the treatment, it's a routine thing, and it can run for multiple years.

Not sure how is few years 'a short time' but that's alright!

Listen to a doctor instead of mumsnet, you will do better. And we are literally giving them to cis kids all the time.

Are you saying this should be stopped?

Menopause.

You actually have to have menses to experience the pause in them. I understand you need to try and force the differences to vanish to permit women to be men, but they're not going anywhere. Women needing hormone replacement to support them through the change in their menstrual cycle and body is not something any man is ever going to need or experience medical treatment for, because bluntly, they lack the equipment.

Temporarily pausing puberty in children whose puberty has started too early for their bodies, with a view to recommencing puberty at a more appropriate time, is not the same as preventing puberty from starting at the expected time. Particularly when this is done with one eye on never recommencing puberty.

You're welcome.

YMMV. It's probably a mistake to assume that silly mummies have no actual real life experience of what they speak about.

OP, if you would like to read research around these issues try here:

https://statsforgender.org/

It’s worth knowing that for many men who take large amounts of cross-sex hormones, the aim is to develop breast tissue so that they can play with their fake tits while they masturbate. This is known as autogynephilia.

Not to mention in order to assist a child who usually has severe medical problems or developmental needs, as opposed to creating a child who will grow up to look cosmetically different.

No, they're not tossed out like sweets.

I am a mom, my kids went through medical conditions, that doesn't mean I am an expert on them, not to mention a medical doctor with speciality in pediatry and endocrinology. And people in those two specialities are the ones I tend to listen to.

'cis'

That's another medical team used since... oh my, almost 100 years ago. Way before 'trans' as a term made it's way into medicine.

But that's mumsnet, offended by medicine.

'mom'

Volkmar Sigusch invented that 'medical' term in 1991, not almost 100 years ago.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkmar_Sigusch