Women's single sex spaces are not yours to violate or individual women's to give away.
TiredOfYourLies ·
19/03/2026 22:10
Society is not a democracy where every single person has to agree to something before it’s allowed.
I’d like your response to this: I find it interesting you bring up religion because in most situations I’m sure you’d say you’re under no obligation to act a certain way because of someone’s beliefs
Quoting TiredOfYourLies
TheKeatingFive ·
19/03/2026 22:06
Amd these people you know do not get to consent on behalf of other women, you understand that, right?
You are ignoring women's consent. There's a word for men who do that.
Quoting SternJoyousBeev2
TiredOfYourLies ·
19/03/2026 22:05
I’ve known people of those faiths you mention who have had no issue sharing a space with me.
I find it interesting you bring up religion because in most situations I’m sure you’d say you’re under no obligation to act a certain way because of someone’s beliefs.
Quoting TiredOfYourLies
SternJoyousBeev2 ·
19/03/2026 21:59
You are absolutely clueless. The fact that women of certain religious faiths may end up having to self exclude from women’s services and spaces because of men like you means nothing to you.
We are telling you that your presence in women only spaces has a negative impact so stay out from now on.
Quoting RedToothBrush
TiredOfYourLies ·
19/03/2026 21:55
I didn’t say that. I said at my stage of transition, I can be almost certain my presence isn’t having a negative impact on others. If my presence was having an actual negative impact on others I wouldn’t use female spaces.
Quoting TiredOfYourLies
RedToothBrush ·
19/03/2026 21:50
So the dignity and privacy of others can just be ignored cos it's not convenient for you.
Cheers.
Quoting SternJoyousBeev2
TiredOfYourLies ·
19/03/2026 21:46
I concluded that I’m equally entitled to access spaces that are safe. I’m established in my transition and know my presence isn’t disruptive. As my therapist always reminds me, I’m not responsible for how others might feel about me
Quoting TiredOfYourLies
SternJoyousBeev2 ·
19/03/2026 21:34
So what did you conclude in your thoughts for others ?
Quoting RedToothBrush
TiredOfYourLies ·
19/03/2026 21:12
You don’t really know my deeds apart from what you’ve assumed. You assumed I pushed in without any awareness or thought for others, and that is not true.
Quoting TiredOfYourLies
RedToothBrush ·
19/03/2026 21:00
This makes out there's equal entitlement here.
It's a nice trick but what you dont point out is it's not just about words. It's also about deeds.
You have said you will continue to use female only facilities - this pushing out some women and removing the privacy and dignity of others. Women don't have anywhere else to go en mass.
As a single male you can easily remove yourself from this conflict point, maintain your privacy and dignity in doing so and not shit on women.
The entitlement is entrenched in this point together with your insistence that the material reality of sex - which offers you your own protections as trans and can't be ignored by doctors - is irrelevant and that sex is the same as gender.
Women are not demanding anything. They just want to be free of men dominating them everywhere. Single sex spaces came from the desire to escape male dominance and dictatorship as well as from safety and privacy reasons.
Now that's been bulldozed as not important - by men.
There's no equality in this entitlement in the way you try and make out. You try and frame it as reasonable but the point you miss is the most important one of all - women being allowed to advocate for themselves by themselves.
Quoting Greyskybluesky
TiredOfYourLies ·
19/03/2026 20:46
And as I have already said, you’re completely free to your opinion and I respect that. I’ve never demanded or told anyone how they should describe or refer to me.
You’re entitled to call me a man and I’m entitled to say I’m not one.
Quoting TiredOfYourLies
Greyskybluesky ·
19/03/2026 20:38
Who has demanded anything?
Are you for real?
You and your friend are demanding access to women's stuff and the word woman itself.
We say no.
Quoting noblegiraffe
TiredOfYourLies ·
19/03/2026 20:35
Shouting? Really? That’s a tad dramatic when it’s an online forum. Who has demanded anything? Disagreement and debate is not demanding anything
Quoting TiredOfYourLies
noblegiraffe ·
19/03/2026 20:28
You really can't see it? Shouting over women and demanding stuff of them?
Quoting noblegiraffe
TiredOfYourLies ·
19/03/2026 19:54
Why don’t you tell me how you perceive the behaviour and why you think it’s male coded?
Quoting TiredOfYourLies
noblegiraffe ·
19/03/2026 19:46
Do you think I would get the same answer from the women on this thread as to whether that behaviour passes as female?
Quoting noblegiraffe
TiredOfYourLies ·
19/03/2026 19:40
I tend not to boil everything down to male vs female. Every single person has a different upbringing and was socialised differently, so I wouldn’t venture to speculate on her behaviour.
Quoting TiredOfYourLies
noblegiraffe ·
19/03/2026 19:34
Out of interest, do you think that the behaviour displayed by your new friend on this thread codes as male or female?
Quoting Greyskybluesky
TiredOfYourLies ·
19/03/2026 19:21
Do you not see the difference between a public forum for the discussion of these issues and what I do in the real world?
Quoting TiredOfYourLies
Greyskybluesky ·
19/03/2026 19:09
There aren't enough irony klaxons in the world for this thread
Quoting Greyskybluesky
TiredOfYourLies ·
19/03/2026 19:08
There is a difference between violent activists and a group of people quietly trying to live their lives. I don’t announce my transsexual status to everyone I meet and I don’t draw attention to myself because I want a quiet life
Quoting TiredOfYourLies
Greyskybluesky ·
19/03/2026 19:06
It's the same behaviour from where I'm standing.
Look at this thread!!
Quoting RedToothBrush
TiredOfYourLies ·
19/03/2026 19:02
Trans activists ≠ transsexuals
Quoting TiredOfYourLies
RedToothBrush ·
19/03/2026 19:00
Oh shall I rephrase it as punching women in the face or threatening to punch women in the face if they object to males in women's only spaces instead then seeing as this seems to be a theme.
I've not seen the reverse.
Quoting RedToothBrush
TiredOfYourLies ·
19/03/2026 18:57
Claims of punching down are rich coming from gender criticals
Quoting TiredOfYourLies
RedToothBrush ·
19/03/2026 18:56
Says the male claiming he's female.
Yeah. I think I'm just fine thanks.
The punching down on women gives it away by demonstrations of dominance by literally having to piss on womens spaces.
Quoting RedToothBrush
TiredOfYourLies ·
19/03/2026 18:53
Quoting TiredOfYourLies
RedToothBrush ·
19/03/2026 18:52
They are human
But otherwise that's about it really.
Quoting ATranssexualWoman
TiredOfYourLies ·
19/03/2026 18:51
This. You all act as if transsexual women and born women have nothing in common
Quoting ArabellaScott
ATranssexualWoman ·
19/03/2026 18:49
As a woman I also don't want men in my spaces.
Quoting ATranssexualWoman
ArabellaScott ·
19/03/2026 18:46
Most women dont want men in their spaces.
Quoting Helleofabore
ATranssexualWoman ·
19/03/2026 18:45
I have no contempt for female people.
Quoting ATranssexualWoman
Helleofabore ·
19/03/2026 18:43
Your contempt of female people is noted.
Quoting Helleofabore
ATranssexualWoman ·
19/03/2026 18:43
I will continue to use women's spaces and if challenged, I would say I am a cis woman. There's no way for them to prove I'm not
Quoting ATranssexualWoman
Helleofabore ·
19/03/2026 18:40
You are a male person.
Single sex provisions are not segregated on gender identities. That has been clarified in the UK.
You can choose to ignore the EA 2010 but organisations have to capacity to ban your access.
Quoting Helleofabore
ATranssexualWoman ·
19/03/2026 18:25
I am a woman, and so I use women's spaces.
Quoting ATranssexualWoman
Helleofabore ·
19/03/2026 18:22
I am just pointing out that as a male, you should respect female people’s needs and not use that provision.
It is irrelevant what you or any one ‘calls’ it if it has a label using a term referencing biological women.
Quoting Helleofabore
ATranssexualWoman ·
19/03/2026 18:16
That was literally what the person I replied to called it
Quoting ATranssexualWoman
Helleofabore ·
19/03/2026 18:16
It is not 'the ladies'. It is a female single sex provision if it is labelled using any term that is a term for biological women.
Quoting RedToothBrush
ATranssexualWoman ·
19/03/2026 18:15
I use the ladies because I'm a woman. Just like any other woman would.
Quoting ATranssexualWoman
RedToothBrush ·
19/03/2026 18:13
Always someone else fault that you make an active decision to walk into the ladies.
That wasn't 'cis men' making you do this.
Nor is it 'cis men' insisting on female pronouns for transwomen...
Quoting Helleofabore
ATranssexualWoman ·
19/03/2026 18:11
Trans women belong in women's spaces, same as any other woman.
For the cis men who pretend to be trans? Well once again that's cis mens fault and they are the people to blame.
Quoting ATranssexualWoman
Helleofabore ·
19/03/2026 18:09
By the way....
Please point out all the ways how MALE people have not continued to repeal and restrict the rights of female people through their demand to be included in Prison accommodation for female prisoners ? inclusion in female single sex rape crisis support? Refuges? Sport?
Or to be very clear. Please point out all the ways how by demands to be included in Prison accommodation for female prisoners, inclusion in female single sex rape crisis support, Refuges, Sport, or ANY female single sex provision or opportunity, a group of MALE people have not continued to repeal and restrict the rights of female people?
Would you like me to evidence my question? Or can we just assume that because of the court cases, and the mentions in parliament etc that male people have demanded and successfully gained at some stage access to Prison accommodation for female prisoners, female single sex rape crisis support, Refuges, Sport, and just about ANY female single sex provision or opportunity. I am happy to post details supporting all of my claims that a group of male people have done this in the UK.
Quoting Helleofabore
ATranssexualWoman ·
19/03/2026 17:38
I have already explained that.
Quoting ATranssexualWoman
Helleofabore ·
19/03/2026 17:34
Oh... so you have resorted to ad hominem attacks now to distract from the fact that you cannot even explain clearly your claim.
You seem just as ignorant of feminist history, as you cannot conceivable understand the needs of female people and female lived experience.
You keep repeating things that obviously sounded good to you without any further analysis. Because you cannot explain anything. You post links that you think will cover your claims. You have also posted something from a completely different country to the UK when we are here in the UK having a discussion about the UK.
This was your claim:
"It is the EXACT same thing the far right do against migrants with the working class."
Again, I ask to detail this comparison you have just tried to force to work for you? Come on. Lay it all out very clearly.
How is the situation where male people have forced female people to accept their subjective reality as being materially real for access to female single sex provisions been EXACTLY like the far right campaign about limiting legal migration?
Quoting Helleofabore
ATranssexualWoman ·
19/03/2026 17:20
CIS WHITE MEN are the oppressor class.
Trans women are not cis men and do not hold even 1% of the power cis men do.
Undermining bodily autonomy is not, and never will be, a left wing ideal. You have always been conservative. I'm sure you'll deny that, but it doesn't change the fact that anti-trans ideology is rooted in authoritarian, conservative and patriarchal ideals.
It wasn't trans people that revoked the right to abortion, it wasn't trans people that spent millennia oppressing women, it was CIS WHITE MEN.
You're not a feminist by any means, you're another tool of the patriarchy.
And yes, this is the exact same thing as the far rights demonisation of migrants. The far right picked a target to distract people from their oppression. They managed to make you focus more on transsexuals than actual risks to women's rights.
They're not exactly hiding this: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/20/alliance-defending-freedom-multimillion-dollar-conservative-christian-group-attacking-lgbtq-rights
Quoting ATranssexualWoman
Helleofabore ·
19/03/2026 17:15
MALE people are the oppressor class.
No male person can make a choice to undergo extreme body modification to move out of that oppressor class.
In fact, we have at least two male people on this very thread telling us that they continue to use female single sex provisions despite understanding that female people have a right to have those provisions that excludes them.
That is actually an act of continuing oppression right there.
"tool of the far right"
Left wing female people were the first people to raise the alarm decades ago. Or have you also conveniently dismissed this in your rush to portray this as a 'far right' initiative. Male people, by demanding that female people treat them as being female people, have caused this division themselves.
Radical feminism is also not a set of principles that centre any other group like it centres female people. Your discussion about 'other minorities' is actually just another fucking offensive attempt at force teaming.
Shall we point out all the ways that MALE people have continued to repeal and restrict the rights of female people? Where shall we start? Prison accommodation ? Rape crisis support? Refuges? Sport?
"It is the EXACT same thing the far right do against migrants with the working class."
Would you like to detail this comparison you have just tried to force to work for you? Come on. Lay it all out very clearly.
How is the situation where male people have forced female people to accept their subjective reality as being materially real for access to female single sex provisions been EXACTLY like the far right campaign about limiting legal migration?
I am very keen to see your clear argument for this.
Edited
Quoting Helleofabore
ATranssexualWoman ·
19/03/2026 17:06
Trans people aren't the oppressor class. Cis white men are, and the manufactured outrage against trans people is a tool of the far right to divide women and make women think this other minority is the real enemy whilst cis white men repeatedly repeal and restrict the rights of women
It is the EXACT same thing the far right do against migrants with the working class.
Quoting TiredOfYourLies
Helleofabore ·
19/03/2026 16:58
Would you like to give an example of any other sub group of people that have been legally given access to the provisions of another group when that sub group is part of the group responsible for oppression for the group that the provision was set up to protect? Any other group been given these additional privileges like those that have been given to a sub group of male people?
Yet, female people are still the ones losing out here to accommodate a group of male people’s wishes. I find that fucking offensive.
Edited
Quoting Shedmistress
TiredOfYourLies ·
19/03/2026 16:43
You’re serious, aren’t you? That just isn’t true at all. We’re not out here living on easy mode because we’re trans. And I find your suggestion that everything just gets handed to us offensive.
Quoting TiredOfYourLies
Shedmistress ·
19/03/2026 16:37
Mate, a man who says he is a woman gets every law broken just to appease him if he so wishes.
Quoting RedToothBrush
TiredOfYourLies ·
19/03/2026 16:34
You know it isn’t a competition to see who can you treated worse, right? Both of us are treated worse compared to non-trans men.
Quoting ATranssexualWoman
RedToothBrush ·
19/03/2026 16:22
You get treated better than women. We don't even get to use the word women in maternity care.
So don't try that shit here.
Quoting RedToothBrush
ATranssexualWoman ·
19/03/2026 16:14
I didn't say we get it worse? I said we suffer the same thing. Because it is terrible that Doctors continually mistreat people that aren't cis men.
Quoting ATranssexualWoman
RedToothBrush ·
19/03/2026 16:12
So not a sausage about how awful it is how women are treated. Just a 'yeah we get it worst than you' in a 'better at womaning manner' whilst getting all kinds of treatment women are actively denied because they aren't 'old enough', 'might change their mind', 'arent cost effective' or just general can't be arsed with you woman and of course none of your issues are side effects of the drugs you are taking because yeah that would be an admission that the drugs don't work...
Funny that.
Quoting RedToothBrush
ATranssexualWoman ·
19/03/2026 16:04
We absolutely suffer the same thing. It's called 'Trans Broken Arm Syndrome'.
Quoting Helleofabore
RedToothBrush ·
19/03/2026 16:02
Indeed.
They want to be 'treated like women'. Until they might actually be treated like women and get told that there's nothing wrong with them for twenty odd years before being diagnosed with endometriosis. Or not be able to get access to medical treatment because of the religious beliefs of everyone at their GP. Or have to demonstrate at length why a particular treatment (for example an ELCS) is both safe and cost effective and better for their mental health after hospital decide they had targets for CS. Or literally dying and their babies dying because they haven't been believed or listened to whilst in Labour to the point that it's a national scandal and the number of fatalities identified by the BBC is huge. Or not have autism/ADHD diagnosis because all the criteria were set for how males present. Or all the other female related second class patient issues where default human body is presumed to be male - including trans treatments - and is actively made worse by a push towards a gender neutral NHS when it's known this actively harms women.
Women often get utterly shit healthcare treatment and aren't taken as seriously as their male counter parts because there is a known and recognised legitimacy deficit and how women's health has to constantly prove or demonstrate it's worthy of any political interest whatever beyond pink month for breast cancer month on social media.
Quoting RedToothBrush
Helleofabore ·
19/03/2026 15:37
I don't think these male people quite realise what their own statements reveal.
Quoting ATranssexualWoman
RedToothBrush ·
19/03/2026 14:52
That's it?!
Fucking hell that's a LOT!
Quoting Coatsoff42
ATranssexualWoman ·
19/03/2026 14:51
For trans people on the NHS there are few things we actually get. As a transsexual woman I got Sex Reassignment Surgery, Hormones and a few sessions of laser. That's it.
If I want anything else I pay for it.
The NHS funds this as it works in relieving the negative mental health impacts of living with gender incongruence.
Quoting TiredOfYourLies
Coatsoff42 ·
19/03/2026 13:44
Why is it men can have surgery on the NHS to look more feminine and women can have surgery on the NHS to look more masculine, but men can’t have free surgery to look more masculine and women can’t have surgery to look more feminine no matter how depressed they are when they look in the mirror?
Obviously you can do what you like privately, but why is the NHS only covering one set of surgery? Why has one set of people got to just get on with it and take antidepressants?
Why is taxpayers money involved in this at all?
Quoting Helleofabore
TiredOfYourLies ·
19/03/2026 10:51
I’ve never had particularly severe mental health issues, but I did have therapy before I made the decision to transition.
In my mind I know I should’ve been born female, but I don’t believe I have literally changed sex. That’s not to say transition does nothing. My body and appearance has changed a lot and I have a sense of peace when I look in the mirror now. I don’t see the masculine features that caused me distress anymore. There has also been a significant social change I’ve seen throughout my transition. I’m a 1000x happier than I was before.
Do I know why I turned out this way? No, and I don’t think anyone really knows for sure.
Quoting TiredOfYourLies
Helleofabore ·
19/03/2026 09:57
Did you receive proper and on going mental health therapy before you made your decision though?
Do you believe you are not the sex you were born? And have you worked through all aspects of why you might have thought you are the opposite sex or is it more the case that you rejected the concept that you are the sex you were born?
Quoting noblegiraffe
TiredOfYourLies ·
19/03/2026 09:43
I will admit that I did think the evidence was much stronger and less contested. Reading the study you linked about the potential health issues was a little scary. The studies were still small sample sizes so a proper follow up study is needed.
Even knowing this upfront I still think I would’ve decided to transition tbh. The idea of going back to how I was before is one that scares me more than the potential health issues
noblegiraffe ·
19/03/2026 09:35
Incidentally, @TiredOfYourLies I’m glad that you are sticking around and continuing to engage in discussion even though you are having to accept that some things that you thought are not true. Lots of other people would have buggered off well before now.