"A woman who is trans"

[AllThisFuss]

I've been noticing this terminology creeping in. Just thought I might highlight it, so we can keep up to date with their ever-changing attempts to control language and muddy the waters. Have you seen any in the wild?

IndiaWilloughby
‪@indiawilloughby.bsky.social‬
Not a mention of the woman who’s trans, who did nothing wrong. This ruling is in direct conflict with the Gender Recognition Act. How is this happening? It is wrong on every level, and will be used to push trans people even further out of society and into danger

A male person should always be excluded from a female single sex provision unless it is a facility where a female parent or carer has to take a male child under around 8 years old.

This isn’t hard to understand.

The EHRC in their draft guidance said it applies to trans men and women

You are a male person.

You have male body cues that are not even removed in male people taking puberty blockers.

Not only that, but if you respected female people to any degree, you would not enter any provision that was a female single sex provision.

It matters not that you might not be a ‘hulk’. It really doesn’t. All male people have male body cues from their skull shape to their q angles. To their hand shape and proportion to their limb proportions and hip alignment.

Your presence in a female single sex provision will be noticed and there will be female people that your presence harms. Whether you want to believe it or not, this is part of the material reality that will abide regardless of your personal belief.

That's not my understanding

regardless of how any male person identifies

https://x.com/knownheretic/status/2002449600146530366?s=46

and here is some clarity regarding the emotionally manipulative tactics male people use

https://x.com/knownheretic/status/2006188958586380420?s=46

Oh I see. You’re one of those that believe you can always tell. I can tell you from experience that is not always the case.

You can't always tell when women have clocked you as a fella but don't want you to realise. It's a matter of safety to make sure you don't upset the man and we all know how violent men (even ones who think they're women like you) can be.

I thought the SC judgment talked about women who changed their appearance so drastically that they may cause distress to other women in certain situations- like in refuges?

I dont think eddie izzard in the gents counts as distressing.

Well, you’re a man who thinks he’s a woman.

You’re not, you’re a man.

You say your view of yourself and how you’re seen is perfectly well informed.

Given your first belief is an impossibility I’m not sure why you’d think we’d believe the second one.

The man in his 20s/30s who pretended to be 17/18, and returned to his secondary school as a student, was probably satisfied that he looked like a child/young adult and passed. Like you he was also pretending to be something he never could be.

Even if you think you ‘pass’ how creepy is that? You think being in a women’s space, breaking the law and transgressing women’s boundaries and wishes is a win? For you, because you’ve tricked people? It’s beyond disrespectful and any sense of morality.

How do you know that, are you able to look in other peoples minds?

has it occurred to you that other people no matter how accepting of you are, to polite, kind or even scared to tell you anything other than what you want to hear?

There are threads on here with women saying that they would think twice about challenging a man in the ladies.

Men can get very upset if women challenge their identities. And men can be very violent.

Besides which why would i say anything during none threatening interactions?

I have never come across a male claiming to be be a female in a female space which is where i would say something.

How d’you know they can’t tell you’re a man?

Read any cases recently where we see what happens when women say there’s a man in our female space? Oh yes, you have, you referred to cases earlier. Such a mystery why most women would just leave, turn away, ignore, pretend, smile politely. Any man in a women only space is exactly the type of man I and other women should be wary of.

Or is that the point?

If i didn't feel threatened, i would say something, let him know he shouldnt be there.

Next time he could be alone with a girl and she might be terrified.

Gosh… you mean there are female people out there without the ability to correctly identify your sex? Yes… we know. Some female people lack that ability.

Yet, everything in that post that you gave a deflection reply to is proven science.

So, the point remains.

There will always be female people in society who can correctly identify your sex. You never had the consent of female people to use a publicly accessible female single sex provision, yet it seems that you continue to use them despite knowing it will cause some female people distress.

There will also be a large % of female people who would be distressed knowing that that used a female single sex provision unknowing that a male person was also using it as well and they didn’t know. Entry by deception is not the point you think it is. It is rather irrelevant whether some female people didn’t correctly identify your sex. Deception does not change consent. What kind of male person thinks it is ok to deceive to get consent from a female person?

Yeah, that would work if we'd achieved Feminist Utopia where no one notices or reacts to our bodies differently because of our sex, where the gendered expectations laid on top of our sex have magically gone away, where the defauly voice of competence is not male and where make people do not feel entitled to speak for and over us and to reframe what we say about our own lives in a shape that they prefer, where parents share equally in the financial, social and professional impact of having children even if the couple in question are no longer together, and where male people only commit sex crimes against female people and against each other at the same incredibly low rate female people do.

Unfortunately, we ain't there yet. So while we continue to push for that world - and I agree it is a better world - female people still need support against the sexism - the social constraints, the physical risks, the systemic blockers - they face in the here and now.

(Also, "gender identities" make no sense unless we cling on to exactly those patriarchal ideas of gender in the first place. You do get that, right?. Gender Identity is just good ol' old fashioned sexism with a 21st century retread.)

How likely do you think it actually is that a male body which has gone through male puberty even it this has been artifically minipulated and/or has been subjected to cosmetic changes around the chest and or groin would cause alarm or distress in what should be a male only single sex space such than another male would self exclude?

Mate.

"It doesn't matter if women are being deceived as long as they don't find out" is not a winning argument.

We - the actual female people - have to deal with that shit from selfish men pretty much from the day we become women.

That you think it's a reasonable argument just shows how far away from our lived experiences you truly are.

A BBC presenter said, 'a biological transwoman' the other day. I'm sure it was a slip of the tongue but that's why it's done - so the language gets mangled.

Exactly @Helleofabore Entry by deception is bang on. And how pleased these men seem, as though it’s something to be proud of. Look at you silly foolish women. Here I am in all my maleness but I’ve pulled the wool over your eyes.

It’s like a child sneaking into the cinema, or a burglar, or using the gym without membership. Of course for women the price of these men sneaking into women only spaces is far higher than a dodged cinema ticket.

Do you really not understand consent?

Do you really think this position is one of showing you understand what being a ‘woman’ is? I rather think you have provided enough concrete evidence on this thread to show that you have no fucking understanding of female people and their needs.

It also seems to be that perhaps you don’t even understand the reaction of a female person in a situation that causes them distress. Or do you believe that we would all show signs of distress ? Nah… you know nothing about being a female person. There are a great many of us who would never show that distress.

Also isn’t that distress something that some male people enjoy seeing knowing that they have caused it ? Not you specifically, but some male people have told us that very clearly, and many of us know it.

So no, just because a female person doesn’t let in that they correctly identifies your sex, doesn’t mean that they have not correctly identified your sex.

It also said that people with trans-identities should not be put in a position where there are no facilities for them to use. The situation is being over-dramatised by activists and you should try not to be so gullible.

If I was alone in that place, no way would I even show a facial expression that showed that I understood I was in their with a male person.

It is always a ridiculous point for a mals person to brag about. Because it actually shows exactly who they are.

Remember, the lowest quartile of male people in strength is still stronger than 90% of female people.

And the grip strength difference is huge. So too is the leverage limb strength of a male skeleton along with bone density.

Not changed with hormones

There is a reason safeguarding principles exclude every single male person over a certain age. None of it has to do with their philosophical belief. They can have any belief that they want, strong safeguarding excludes all male people.

Anyone else not surprised that Grok is correctly identifying who is male in photos?