"A woman who is trans"

[AllThisFuss]

I've been noticing this terminology creeping in. Just thought I might highlight it, so we can keep up to date with their ever-changing attempts to control language and muddy the waters. Have you seen any in the wild?

IndiaWilloughby
‪@indiawilloughby.bsky.social‬
Not a mention of the woman who’s trans, who did nothing wrong. This ruling is in direct conflict with the Gender Recognition Act. How is this happening? It is wrong on every level, and will be used to push trans people even further out of society and into danger

It’s the old.

as long as you never find out it’s ok to violate consent

argument again.

This, if people with all the money/drugs/ surgeries for themselves or kids don't pass, Dave from down the pub isn't going to.

I suspect what you actually mean is that passing means other men won't be uncomfortable in your presence, and you will have an easier life from other men.

You appear unbothered by what women think or feel.

Hey @ThatOpalTurtle fellow TW here 👋

A lot of what you posted resonates with my experience but I think we've handled it in different ways.

I too feel that my life has been vastly improved by my medical and social transition and really do not regret it, but despite what well meaning friends and family say, I also recognise that I'm not female. The transition certainly did something; my body is no longer that of a typical man, but I am still a kind of male.

I view that transition is a treatment for a mental health issue I have, but like any treatment there are side effects. For us, the social consequences of transition are the trade-off. I would feel very uncomfortable in a male public toilet, so I avoid them. However, I know as you seem to in your post that we are male and morally should not go in female toilets even if people tell us we pass. So personally since transition I've used neutral spaces. That's incredibly inconvenient, where I live there are not many, so I have to plan around the ones that there are. This is the unfortunate side effect of transition, but worth it in my view.

I'm not, as you mentioned you are, waiting for any court case: I know it's wrong so I don't do it. We can choose our actions, we don't need to do what other TWs may do. We are not automatically on the 'good' TRA 'side' fighting the 'evil GCs' who are automatically wrong and bad. We each are individuals with agency and we share our society with others who have thoughts and feelings too.

Men who are hoping that a court decision will remove womens single sex spaces can't possibly think they are the good guys?

Its why i know its nothing about safety or being alone with other men. Because if laws are changed to remove single sex spaces, theyll have no choice but to share with men.

It will be impossible to have a services based on 'gender reassignment' because everyone has a different views about what 'gender' is, and if they think is going to be based on looks - be prepared for some home truths on a daily basis.

Its another way these men mangle language rather than saying they want to remove single sex service, they say 'inclusive services'.

I'm gob-smacked at women, fluffing around this obvious male by escorting him into the ladies' loo. And he cried about being challenged?
Hand- maiden behaviour from his female friends, putting men's 'feelings' above women's rights.
Disgusting

The question quite simply comes down to: How do female people benefit at all to male people, including any through deception, accessing female single sex provisions?

No one has ever answered this outside of some vague social benefit. Well, no social benefit outweighs the loss of safety, privacy and dignity. The supposed social benefits to some female people also doesn't mean that consent can be transferred to those female people who benefit.

I would also suggest that the actual social benefit is to a very small group of female people.

Again, all policies up to now have been formulated by male people in the first instance with the benefit only to male people. I am sure it is very hard for some male people to acknowledge that, particularly if they have made irreversible decisions based on this false perception that these policies were some how 'rights'.

Which is largely about them and their feelings, and meeting their own needs as Saviour and Rescuer while trampling other women for him.

I mean, why oppress women when you can just blow in the ear of some idiot woman who'll do the labour for you? And excuse you from all personal responsibility of being a misogynistic dick and bullying, abusing and excluding women?

It's the Giselle Pellicot argument.

Does it matter that I horribly abused and harmed you for my own selfish needs if I fooled you into not realising it at the time?

Fuck OFF with that rapey shit.

Just accept other people on this planet have rights as well as you, and you cannot mug them for their stuff because you neeeeeeeed it. And have a dick.

Every trans person has a different experience. A lot have experienced transphobic harassment or had very unpleasant experiences in public. I’ve been fortunate enough not to experience any issues in over 4 years. And I don’t think it’s because every person I meet is just being kind.

That becomes easy to spot

Read a text which should read woman and there is a replacement with people etc

Which results in yee oldie Are women not people trope

@ThatOpalTurtle and @TroubledWatersTW

Just to say that I'm more than ready to support campaigns for mixed sex alternatives as long as they are additions to single sex provisions not instead of.

While acknowledging the fundamental point that your needs are not women's problem to solve just because we wouldn't let our resources be your solution, as a gender critical Feminist I see value in solving them anyway because of what they mean socially.

I'm acutely aware of the paradox that we need single sex protections because of male behaviour amd fetishisation of our privacy, but the very existence of those provisions leads some men to fetishise our spaces and our privacy, perpetuating the loop.

With my idealistic head on, I would hope having more gender (not sex) fluid presentation and identities, and more mixed sex alternatives for those happy to use them, would do something to reduce the fetishisation of women's frankly very boring day to day lives.

That's a good point. If a transwoman takes off his clothes, is he still a 'woman'? If so then it doesn't matter what he's wearing. Clothes do not affect his 'status'.

No male person should take the lack of female complaints against their presence as being acceptance and that their presence has not caused some female people harm.

Again, that shows exactly the lack of understanding about female people's lives and reactions that shines a beacon on the fact that male people are not women or girls.

Why? Why are you so determined not to upset builders in particular?

Either kind or scared you’ll kick off.

Exactly, @AllThisFuss

Especially when a supposedly educated person like David Lammy thinks that a man taking artificial, cross-sex hormones, can "grow a cervix." When people in high office & with some authority say such stupid things, is it any wonder people get confused?

India Willoughby thinks that he's got a womb, I gather ...

I was also talking about everyday situations. Do you think every person got my pronouns right without prompting or telling them out of kindness? I have no doubt that if people were actively reading me as trans my life would be a lot harder. Or have I just come across all the nice people?

Well said, @Helleofabore Men have very little inkling of the way women are trained to be generally nice, compliant, and polite, pretty much from birth.

Anyone would think it’s because the women whose spaces you invade are scared to speak up.

I’ll ask again.

why do you think you are above the law?

why do you think it’s ok to “stealth”?

why don’t you care about the women who do not give consent for you to be in their spaces?

Oh Lord.

In my day to day life, for someone I am aware is likely to be trans I would mostly try to avoid pronouns altogether or use they, but if there's no natural way to avoid it I will use the pronouns I think the person expects for the same reason that I smile and shrug off all sorts of daily sexist micro aggressions - because I don't feel I have the power in that moment to push back.

And just as with the other sexist microaggressions, it makes me feel just as powerless, angry and complicit in my own oppression.

(And to be fair, in the case of trans people also because I don't think it's fair to make individuals, quite often quite vulnerable people, scapegoats for the fucked up ideology they follow.)

For me,, they need to be a fourth space.

I would totally support that.

(not a third. The third is for disabled people)

And the overwhelmingly male belief that women only exist anyway for men to use, so what's the prob? It's not like they have lives or any needs of their own, or matter like men do.

It's TRAGIC when a man might not get to be with non consenting women in a state of undress, but fine to exclude women from anything at all.

More and more evidence of WHY women need cast iron legal protections from men who won't accept 'no' .

I suspect you would be very hard pressed to find a female person who has not experienced misogynist harassment in the last 4 years.