Looking at men differently now I know too much?

[clingfilmed]

In recent years I've seen so much in the news and online about men's abuse and violence towards women. A man who looks totally normal and pleasant and is perhaps in many ways a good man might still be going home and creating fake AI nudes of women he knows or watching extreme porn or abusing his wife or kids or using prostitutes or cam girls or has a fetish that degrades and dehumanises women or is a complete misogynist.

There is a post on the relationships board now where a married man is hoping that just because a mum of his sons friend has been friendly towards him she might fancy him and be up for it.

Then looking at many of the men I know day to day how they talk to and interact with their wives and families is depressing to see, almost like they don't care at all.

I know its not every man, I know some men who I do think are good. I do look back to the rose tinted days of my teens when I would idealise boys and think they were so amazing and now knowing what I do about general trends and some men in particular its quite a disappointment.

I 100% agree with all your points. I also am reluctant to call myself a feminist as I am not a bitter, angry man hater.

I agree. All this demonisation of men makes me very uncomfortable. Women can be aggressive too, their aggression shows in different ways though. I read about a study that looked at fights in the playground and they initially found there were much more fights between boys but when they went back and looked again they realised there were an equal amount between girls but these were not phyical fights, rather name calling, being mean etc. Women can't compete physically in a fight but they can deploy their bitchy side and engage in gossip, reputation destruction, innuendo, shunning. I know just as many unsavoury women as men but they use different tools.

I'm not middle class, I'm working class. I am not white. And I don't live in western Europe.

No one is 'hating' let alone 'unconditionally hating' men. You're being overdramatic.

I am not a bitter, angry man hater.

You sound like a man there. Calling women 'bitter' and 'angry man hater'.

We are not bitter, nor do I know any feminist who actually hates men. Your view of feminism is truly messed up and sounds like you see it through the lens of Male Privilege.

If you think this is a "man hating board" you obviously haven't read many if any threads on here. I have yet to see one poster that 'hates' men.

I do wonder why people have such a desperate need to distort and misrepresent people on here. Is it because they are MRAs I wonder, and need to lie and misrepresent the 'enemy' to control the agenda and make feminists look bad.

Think what you like. I am a woman and I find it ridiculous that you assume everyone who disagrees with you must be male. It is known as the 'no true Scotsman' fallacy.

There aren't that many women who disparage their own by calling us "I am not a bitter, angry man hater."

That's not the language of any woman I know. Maybe, perhaps, handmaids, but otherwise even women who don't consider themselves feminists in the true sense never speak like that.

Have you heard of internalised misogyny?

I don't think I'm suggesting that males are not more prone to certain types of behaviour, including sexual abuse and violence. Males are bigger and stronger and in that respect have an advantage; alongside ( because of?) the testosterone which can so easily make them prone to aggression or violence.
Females can also be violent and abusive, and certainly towards children, but they cannot do as much physical damage as a male can. And of course, females are not sexually driven in the same way as males either. The potential for sexual abuse and fetishistic behaviours etc is far, far greater in males.

That is rather provocative.

Clearly some women have suffered more at the hands of the males in their lives than others, and this can obviously leave scars. Though I do agree over generalising one's negative experiences and applying that to all men is not very healthy.

We can notice general differences of patterns between the sexes without having to hate on one sex or the other.

I have.
Do you not think women can cause harm too? Do you think it's inherently misogynistic to even point this out?

The fact remains, though, is that I'm not alone. More and more women are rejecting feminism. Feminism is getting a bad press and it's because of attitudes like the ones displayed all too often on this board and across the wider site. The number of times that people on here say that 'decent men are in a minority' or even practically non existent is staggering and ridiculous, and actually takes away from real issues of male violence IMO. I think that a lot of people seem to think that the fact that most physical violence is committed by men means that most men are violent. They aren't. Also, how many child abuse cases may have been committed by men, but enabled by women? Ian Watkins comes to mind. Yes, he was a monster, but the fact is that some women willingly offered him their babies to abuse. Life is far more complex than 'men bad, women innocent'.

Open your eyes and start living in the real world, not in your online echo chambers.

Have you considered that the issues you are discussing are more problematical in males as a particular human category ( rather than 'in men' as such) because of some of the innate differences between males and females? That is not to 'justify' male violence or sexual aggression but it can go some way in explaining it.

Our fathers, husbands, sons, male friends are not responsible for the violence of other men. Violence, unfortunately, is not something that is going to disappear entirely because it is part of the human condition. At best we each have to be taught or learn how to exercise discipline or self control over our more basic urges. Though not everyone is able to manage that, clearly......and none of us is entirely free of agggressive urges or instincts; secretive or overt desires to harm or hurt others.

Though for all people in the moment of physical threat we have to instinctively make a calculation as to our chances of self defence, and if you are confronted with a far larger person, with bigger weapons and an obvious willingness to use them we are not going to rate our chances highly. That is part of the reason we have different size and weight categories in certain sports - especially contact sports. And unfortunately, sometimes size and strength does win the day - and gets to exert its power over smaller, weaker ones.

It seems to me you're implying women are as violent as men but use words instead. This just isn't true and is a myth peddaled by the patriarchy

Aggressive urges, instincts and desires to dominate or put others down can manifest in non physical ways too, and in this respect females/women/girls can be every bit as aggressive. Some people - male or female just have stronger, more dominating personalities than others.

Do you recognise that some women can be violent, whether that's physically or verbally? Or is that a myth pedalled by the patriarchy?

I said they are not as violent as men.

According to the playground study I cited above, they were. The altercations were verbal rather than physical in nature.

“Misrepresent the enemy” Don’t be so ridiculous. Honestly your post is just proving the tediousness of this board.

3 men a week are not killed by women's words.

If you have any boys, then you'll also have to deal with the fact that they are no different to any other man.

All of these awful men have been raised by other women.

Do you think that someone verbally abusing you counts as violence in the same way as someone physically assaulting you?

Men commit 98 -99% of sexual assaults and 88% of violent assaults. The difference between levels of violence committed by women is not comparable to the level committed men.

You sound like a man there

😂 What does a woman "sound like", then?
Are we all to be lovely, and softly spoken all of the time?
Maybe "sugar and spice and all things nice" as the rhyme goes?
It's "women don't have to be kind" on here until one says something you don't like and it's automatically "you sound like a man" whatever that means 😁

It's a different type of violence but still violence for sure. I wouldn't want to be at the receiving end of either. Of course men can kill you and I'd rather not die but women can also make your life not worth living. I've seen some men have their lives and reputations destroyed by women who lied about them. I've seen good men and women who were standing up and doing the right thing in the workplace having their work reputations ruined and losing their career. I've seen family members ostracised by one female family member who manipulated others to her viewpoint and managed to convince everyone that this person was worthy of bullying and ostracisation and I've seen the ensuing loneliness and depression of that family member.

I've also seen how the 'be kinders' silenced people on the trans issue and we all know where that led.

It's hard to stand up to female aggression because it's hard to pinpoint and easy to deny. Even pointing out the existence of it can have people call you an 'internal misogynist' it seems.

I think as a society we need to stand up against aggression by both men and women and neither should be afraid to call the other out. I am not anti-men or anti-women and I don't want to get into a big discussion of who is worse. I don't think it's worthwhile or helpful. I have sons and daughters and I try to raise them to stand up for what is right, listen to their instincts and think for themselves.