Well this was totally predictable

[OverlyFragrant]

Woman identifying as a man is 'raped in all-male psychiatric ward' https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15461027/Transgender-man-raped-male-psychiatric-hospital-ward-court-hears.html?ito=native_share_article-bottom

Shame on these men and shame on the NHS for placing this poor women directly in the hands of predators.

Srsly? Dude.

Gosh that is horrendous. Poor woman.

This is something that needs to change. There are senior people in the NHS promoting and sanctioning all this. There are (unless they've been withdrawn now) policies in certain NHS Trusts specifically advocating placing male sex offenders on women's wards.
That tells us a lot about the type of people writing this stuff and the nature of senior managers in signing off on all this.

They must be exposed and held to account for the crimes they're enabling.

You know what the poster means, right? So I don’t understand the pedantry. Is it just to prove that only men can rape? That assault with an object is somehow less impactful? I don’t think a victim would think so.

This post may have actually broken my brain, it's so pretzeled.

If transpeople are more at risk of being raped, why on earth would anyone think it's a good idea to place them on wards with people of the opposite sex?

And this is our fault somehow? When we would advocate for protecting her from men and the poster wouldn't?

Jeez

Fuck me are the TRA really coming on here to try and blame women who recognise the reality of sex for this poor woman's rape?

there really is no barrel they won't scrape is there. You could put the bar in Hades it's so low and they still try and go under it. Weaponising rape to defend men in women's spaces with "women do it to". Fuck me - why yes you are the bad guys

this incredibly vulnerable woman was placed on a ward with men who allegedly raped her. The only reason that happened was because she identified as male and everyone in the hospital went along with it because the NHS has been stonewalled to hell. No one, not one person it would seem, went 'well look she's clearly female and vulnerable however she identifies and we need to keep her safe', no they just went 'ah well she's says she's a man and the policy says that means she is so male ward it is'

if your first response to the alleged rape of a woman is to think 'right how can I use this to defend the TRA position that single sex spaces are not needed' you really really are not on the right side of fucking history

Also I fully expect this thread to be reported by the TRA and deleted within 30 mins

I can't make any sense of what the "own it" post is trying to say, and since the previous poster who started randomly repeating bits of a post as some oblique response to multiple other posters was deleted, I'm not going to try this time.

Segregating by sex, regardless of gender identity (because I'm not transphobic enough to conflate the two and pretend they're the same) is what many of us on here have been asking for for years, as well as appropriate safeguarding. If someone wants to lie and say we've been against it, fill your boots.

We're livid at the system which has facilitated this and not safeguarded this vulnerable person.

If anyone thinks that is wrong then feel free to make their case, but they're going to have to engage with what is actually being said. Surely this case is serious enough for honesty and good faith.

No not pedantic its the law only men can rape.
Serious sexual assaults are horrific however the law recognises that men raping predominantly women and children is worse than Serious sexual assaults due to the risks of STDs and pregnancy.
The whataboutry on this thread by MRAs and now TRAs is disgusting hence the poster I was responding to has been deleted by MNHQ

🎯

I don't think anyone thinks it's less impactful. But it's a distinction that's important.

It's my understanding that the serious sexual assault you're describing is considered with the same gravity as rape. And I believe carries the same tariff as rape.

But it's become very clear exactly how important it is to distinguish rape from serious sexual assault, because it means only men can do it (apart from joint enterprise).

Both crimes are equally horrendous, of course.

And let's not forget, 98% of all sex crimes are committed by men.

What the actual f*ck is wrong with the people in charge of the NHS that they thought putting a biologically female patient in with a group of mentally unwell men, unsupervised, was a good idea? Raped twice, within hours of arrival, and the staff did nothing to help. And later put her in another facility with the man who raped her and she had to call 999! The state failing in its most basic functions.

I am so f*cking sad and angry about this.

Try owning the lack of safeguarding.

She wouldn't have got raped at all then.

What the actual fck is wrong with the people in charge of the NHS that they thought putting a biologically female patient in with a group of mentally unwell men, unsupervised, was a good idea?

it really is horrific and quite inexplicable.

Exactly how many people would be involved in this bloody decision? Quite a few, I would imagine. Including those who actually ushered her into the bloody ward.

I hope there's a whistleblower in there somewhere, who can blow the lid off this.

I don't get why it was claimed that 'the NHS isn't on trial here.'

Of course they bloody should be. How is this different to any other case of sex discrimination?

I know what you mean. Not sure DARVO quite covers it!

Fuck me are the TRA really coming on here to try and blame women who recognise the reality of sex for this poor woman's rape?

Absolutely they are.

People who adopt trans identities remain either male or female like everyone else on this planet. They are not some unique or special category of human being. The denial of the reality of biological sex and its consequences is the cause of much pain, disappointment, frustration and incomprehension - when real life matters don't go the way one would ideally like them to, or think they ought to.

Ideas exist in our head and we can try to turn them into a reality, but ultimately we have to come to terms with the reality of life on earth in a human body. We are subject to the same forces and pressures as every other living creature. Sex is universal and one of the basic, foundational building blocks of life on earth.

Trans people - both trans guys and girls - are at much higher risk than anyone else of being raped - and it's because of terfs dehumanising them like this.

You've got this completely the wrong way round.

A woman was raped because she was placed in a male psychiatric ward because she identified as a transman.

This happened because people like you insist that gender identity is more important than sex.

If the NHS had listened to 'terfs' instead of TRAs, this woman wouldn't have been placed in this dangerous situation. She would have been in a female ward where she would have been safe.

Transmen are only at higher risk of being raped if you treat them as men and put them in single sex male spaces full of disturbed and violent men. If you treat them as the women they are, they are at zero risk of being raped in a female only space (except from the risk from male staff which also applies to all the other women there).

Also, loving the idea that naming sex is somehow dehumanising. Well no, it's kinda essential to the human experience and continued human existence.

Apparently at least 1 member of staff had not been advised that a person identifying as trans was on the ward. And unfortunately if medical records had been altered to say the person was male, most would not have doubted the records. I'm sorry to say, but I think this is where not sticking to biology causes issues. Of course the attack was horrific and should not have happened, having said that.
Edited for typos!

Well, in the actual court case the newspaper report covered, it was the two men who were literally on trial, for specific crimes. That’s one thing. That in no way exonerates the NHS for putting a female patient in with them. Secure psychiatric hospitals exist to treat and protect the patients but also for the protection of others from them.

Awful and utterly predictable. This person’s gender identity trumps their right to safety? Why did noone advocate for her (social worker say) and insist she wasn’t put somewhere this was such a risk, or near inevitability?

For safety reasons, trans people and their supporters need to accept the difference between gender identity and biological sex.

The DARVO poster might want to consider blaming the rapists, rather than the ‘dehumanising terfs’.

Victim-blaming and point-scoring is pretty much what I'd expect, I suppose. Misgendering on this thread shows the total lack of respect for the poor victim.

Trans people aren't "TRAs". Dehumanising them in this way, denying their individuality, contributes to the very real violence they suffer.

Virtually every young trans person experiences MH crises as a result of that bullying. They're regularly sexually assaulted at school, told they deserve it.

Seen terfmen glorying in ideas of corrective rape online before today. I hope terfwomen will call them out. Some solidarity with another population repeatedly targeted for rape would be an idea.