How is the trans issue ever going to be resolved?

[PassportPanicFuuuck]

It seems as insoluble as the Israel/Palestine question when the two "sides" want directly opposing things. I've heard the arguments that trans people "just want to pee" and that "no-one would go through medical/surgical gender reassignment purely to abuse women", plus the mantras that "trans people exist", "trans rights are human rights" and "trans women are women" and it's quite clear that the people who believe these things fervently aren't going to change their minds any time soon.

But to a certain extent, life isn't fair. Not everyone does have equal opportunities. If you're in a gay relationship (and there's nothing wrong with that) you can't have a biological child with your partner; if you're infertile (as I am) you can't have a child at all; if you're trans (and there's nothing wrong with that either) you can't enter the spaces of the opposite sex; if you're British you don't have an automatic right to go and live in the US; if you're short and unsporty you don't have a right to be on the Olympic basketball team - and so on. All sorts of opportunities are denied people at various different points, some as a result of decisions you make (like not studying for a medical degree means I can never be a doctor) and some not (see above re. infertility), and beyond universal human rights you don't have a right - one might say "entitlement" - to an awful lot of things, much as you might keenly want them.

Like it or not, once we end up in these categories we have to accept it. Absolutely no-one is eligible to do everything or to go everywhere. However if you have made a choice - even if you consider it to be more a recognition of something innate rather than a conscious decision - it doesn't mean that you have made this choice on behalf of everyone else. If you have chosen to transition (again, you may not consider it to be a "choice") you can't dictate that everyone else ignore biology and logic and linguistic authenticity and you can't dictate that everyone else will want to celebrate your decision. No, we don't have to accept the "lady bulge", we don't have to accept child abuse under the guise of gender-affirming care and we don't have to accept men in female sports / changing rooms / organisations.

Not sure how coherently worded all the above is, but perhaps it will provoke some interesting debate.

Thank you for sharing. Quite a lot to process if I am to try and be more open to my DD’s feelings around her gender perhaps having a different source and drivers. I wish there more material out there, not curated by Mermaids and Stonewall, that I could read to get to grips with it. Am very open to, not understanding exactly, but to trying to hear and empathise with an alternative experience if it helps to understand and support my DD.

You know, for ONCE it would be nice if scolders would actually read and reflect rather than just go full RANT RAGE and didn't willfully misquote, misrepresent and just generally totally miss the point in what people say here.

It's the fact there's no attempt to even try that gets me.

Sorry🙁I can't think of any material to share. I don't go looking for it because I don't personally need it, and I can't off the top of my head remember coming across anything that left an impression on me.

I really hope you manage to communicate with your DD, and that she truly understand you have only her best interests at heart !

Sadly, I believe the point is to virtue signal, I don’t even think that they hope the obvious emotional manipulation will convince people.

The lack of engagement with any practical points suggests that the point is not to actually help trans people.

Can confirm I don't feel helped at all, quite the opposite 😂

Such posts only show what is in the posters mind, nothing about other posters at all.
Without tone of voice and body language the only thing indicating anyone is being hateful (goddess, how I hate the use of this word in this context) is the voice in the readers head, this form of communication is sometimes nothing but a mirror, so there isn't any desire to read and reflect only a desire to reinforce perception. Missing the point is the point.
Either that or some people went to very special schools that offered A level mind reading. In other places I've tried up clarifying things I am trying to say only to be told I am wrong about what's in my own mind. It can be labelled navel gazing and disapproved of, I think perception is quite interesting but appreciate others don't find it so!

Trans people will not keep being born as nobody is born trans.

Love this very accurate response.

Shrieking, wailing and screaming abuse at people has the general effect of turning people off.

It's ironic that this hasn't been grasped yet.

I don't think it will be because it isn't based on evidence, it's based on emotions and a heck of a lot of projection.

Yes. It also begs the question of how the "violent cis men" know whom to harass and assault, if being harassed and assaulted by "cis" men is the only thing we share.

Incidentally we also share that characteristic with gay men, disabled men and men of a different colour/religion/ethnicity to the assaulter.

If those people can all be dismissed as not-women because the assaulter/harasser is reacting to some other characteristic (e.g.disability), then what characteristic are they reacting to in the case of "women" if women share nothing but being the victims of men?
.

I invite to read this entire thread, and quote each statement that you consider "hateful", along with a line or two explaining why you think it's hateful.

It's not hateful to want to protect autistic women and girls from misdiagnosis and subsequent medical mistreatment. Parents who resist the affirmation-only mistreatment of their children are trying to protect them, not reject them. Please consider the impact of your behaviour, your smearing of these parents and their supporters as "transphobic" and "hateful", on vulnerable autistic women and girls.

Yours faithfully, an autistic woman.

It's important not to underestimate the role of large global corporations that latched onto gender ideology. Not long ago, the company I work for was going overboard for genderism, gay pride etc. We were all supposed to declare our pronouns and gender identities in our personal information. This year, it's all vanished. Not just the trans stuff, everything, like women's rights and disability rights. They've turned with the wind, and the wind is blowing strongly away from DEI. This itself is going to weaken genderism because, as it was a fad, I can't see it coming back into fashion.

The MALE SEX is not a 'minority'. They are the predator and oppressor ruling sex class. A male wearing a dress does not change this.

But keep hating women and showing you don't see the female sex as human. The hate in your posts is so acrid it comes through the screen.

Sweetheart, let me explain a few things.

1. As I've said a few times, I'm cis female. Mum to a trans kid.
2. Dismissing every criticism of anti-trans hatred as 'you hate women' is rather unimaginative. I get that it allows you to avoid the point being made, but honestly? Change the record.
3. Trans men exist too. Reducing the existence of an entire minority to "bloke in a dress! Bloke in a dress!" is (while very funny, and almost directly quoting Suzy Izzard's "thought you shagged crisps?" from 1994) is bit tragic.
4. Getting angry about minorities poisons your soul and prevents healing.

Hope you have a lovely Tuesday, and reconsider all the hate. It's genuinely pointless.

Sweetheart, let me explain a few things.

That is exactly how patronising men talk. Smug, aggressive, patronising. The tone and the wording is very male.

A. You first lied and said you it was two cousins. There is nothing more dangerous than a trans parent as they are so vociferous to defend the cognitive dissonance, as understanding what they've done is too much to bear.
B. Dismissing every defence of womens rights as 'anti trans' 'hatred' is rather unimaginative. I get that it allows you to avoid the point being made, that this is about the battle of the sexes; MALE vs FEMALE, but honestly? Change the record. If WOMENS RIGHTS is 'anti trans', then pro trans is anti women. It's that simple.
C. As FEMALES, trans men are....NOT A THREAT TO US. One would have thought this would have clued you in. That it would have given you the hint that it's about MALES. Not 'trans', since we're fine with trans men.
D. Thinking a fully intact hulking male is a 'minority' because he wears a dress, instead of being an alpha male and member of the predator and oppressor sex class might fool you but it won't fool everyone. Getting angry about womens rights poisons your soul and prevents healing.
Hope you have a lovely Tuesday, and reconsider all the hate you have in your heart for the female sex, all to justify what you're doing to your child. It's genuinely pointless.

Okay, fine. Hating trans people is your life, I'll get lost again.

Anger against minorities, conspiracy theories, hatred and fury won't fix anything, but you go ahead.

Hope you heal.

No, hating males is.

Hating women is your life.

Males are not a minority. Males are the rapey, predator and oppressor sex. Females are the minority. Your hatred of women, rape survivors like me and our rights won't win anything. You are losing the war. I hope you heal from your hatred of women.

Hope you stop impotently railing at women on the feminist board of a female oriented website. The world isn’t ever going to agree that “trans women are women” because they are not. It’s that simple and I suggest you and your child get to grips with it.

But if you want to carry on railing, have at it. I doubt anyone is all that interested.

Hi @TransParentlyAnnoyed , did you ever explain why you think 17 males are children if they are involved in legal cases of harassment, but are grown up when it comes to making decisions about irrevocable medical treatments?

And lo, it seems that you haven't learnt a single thing.

I ask again, what do you think is so 'hateful' about saying humans can change sex and women's single sec spaces need to be protected.

Because to me, that's the exact opposite of hate. It's respect - for scientific fact and women's rights.

Can you explain why you disagree?

I don’t hate men or trans people.

I just think safe medicine doesn’t exist if sex can’t be described accurately, medicine should be evidence based, I don’t want to be oppressed by gender, I need sex based rights and a single sex space that includes both sexes is a mixed sex space.

But I suspect that is all too reasonable to get any comment from @TransParentlyAnnoyed

Still waiting for an explanation of whether a man who is a victim of male violence is male or female, or whether there is more to being a woman than being a victim.

Also, should everyone just get a PSA test from their GP incase they have a prostate?

@TheKeatingFive I don’t think you’ll ever get an answer, because there isn’t a one that doesn’t bear out the obvious misogyny.