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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How is the trans issue ever going to be resolved?

1000 replies

PassportPanicFuuuck · 03/01/2026 20:37

It seems as insoluble as the Israel/Palestine question when the two "sides" want directly opposing things. I've heard the arguments that trans people "just want to pee" and that "no-one would go through medical/surgical gender reassignment purely to abuse women", plus the mantras that "trans people exist", "trans rights are human rights" and "trans women are women" and it's quite clear that the people who believe these things fervently aren't going to change their minds any time soon.

But to a certain extent, life isn't fair. Not everyone does have equal opportunities. If you're in a gay relationship (and there's nothing wrong with that) you can't have a biological child with your partner; if you're infertile (as I am) you can't have a child at all; if you're trans (and there's nothing wrong with that either) you can't enter the spaces of the opposite sex; if you're British you don't have an automatic right to go and live in the US; if you're short and unsporty you don't have a right to be on the Olympic basketball team - and so on. All sorts of opportunities are denied people at various different points, some as a result of decisions you make (like not studying for a medical degree means I can never be a doctor) and some not (see above re. infertility), and beyond universal human rights you don't have a right - one might say "entitlement" - to an awful lot of things, much as you might keenly want them.

Like it or not, once we end up in these categories we have to accept it. Absolutely no-one is eligible to do everything or to go everywhere. However if you have made a choice - even if you consider it to be more a recognition of something innate rather than a conscious decision - it doesn't mean that you have made this choice on behalf of everyone else. If you have chosen to transition (again, you may not consider it to be a "choice") you can't dictate that everyone else ignore biology and logic and linguistic authenticity and you can't dictate that everyone else will want to celebrate your decision. No, we don't have to accept the "lady bulge", we don't have to accept child abuse under the guise of gender-affirming care and we don't have to accept men in female sports / changing rooms / organisations.

Not sure how coherently worded all the above is, but perhaps it will provoke some interesting debate.

OP posts:
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KitWyn · 10/01/2026 15:30

nicepotoftea · 10/01/2026 14:16

A: "Oh, Sorry, this is the ladies!"
B: Turns round "Oh Sorry, I actually I am a woman, ha, ha",

As it is obvious from B's voice and appearance that they are female...

A: "Oh my goodness I'm awfully sorry!"

Red faces and discomfort all round, but not actual violence. Why would there be a sudden outbreak of violence against gender non conforming women when violence hasn't been reported against obvious men? It's as though people can tell the difference...

Agreed. It's such cynical & hypocritical nonsense from TRAs. Now, they care about gender non-conforming women and 'butch' lesbians, but only because they hope it's a gotcha argument against the Terven.

Transwomen, typically look like a man parodying womanhood. Usually via overly 'feminine' clothing and heels, a big wig/hairdo and exaggerated makeup. They still look uncompromisingly male.

This is not remotely how a gnc woman or lesbian usually presents.

Whereas the transwoman will have:

  • Deep male voice
  • Male aggression and anger to being asked why he's there
  • Male height, stance, gait & glare
  • Broad shoulders & narrow hips
  • Jutting forehead, prominent chin and nose
  • Large ears, hands & feet
  • Adam's apple & stubble/shadow
  • Male pattern baldness

Legally, under the Equality Act 2010, all men - however they identify - must be excluded from women-only spaces. Transwomen are not allowed to be there; they must use the Men's or a Unisex facility instead.

Knowing who is male and who is female is really not going to be an issue when enforcing this law.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/01/2026 15:37

Pingponghavoc · 10/01/2026 14:49

The idea that we can't challenged anyone using womens spaces because we may be wrong and that would be embarrassing, is suggesting that the worst thing thay could happen is an awkward moment.

Strangely pearl clutching for a group who accuse GC of being prudish movement. They are expecting women to treat men in womens spaces as we would treat guests over for dinner.

What they want is for there to be no way to object.

RedToothBrush · 10/01/2026 15:42

Pingponghavoc · 10/01/2026 14:49

The idea that we can't challenged anyone using womens spaces because we may be wrong and that would be embarrassing, is suggesting that the worst thing thay could happen is an awkward moment.

Strangely pearl clutching for a group who accuse GC of being prudish movement. They are expecting women to treat men in womens spaces as we would treat guests over for dinner.

Look at the feminine qualities women are 'supposed' to have.
Being passive, being kind, not questioning, not confronting, being submissive, gentleness, sensitive, empathetic, self sacrificing etc...

Women who don't just fold and accept the narrative that transwomen are women are not conforming to this ideals. In doing so they are inadvertantly just by challenging, questioning, not self sacrificing, self advocating and being vocal are all traits associated with being masculine.

If we have a bunch of people - both trans people and their allies who strongly believe in gender stereotypes then women who don't follow these and are non-conforming but stating they are absoluetely women are threatening to the very concept of transgenderism by their very existance. (Irony klaxon).

They can not be allowed to act 'out of their lane' for this reason.

This is before you consider that the idea of 'being kind' is wholly one dimensional and only kind to one group (transpeople) and are utterly dismissive of how it might not be kind to others. This also can't be seen, because again it undermines the whole narrative they are trying to push.

The whole reaction is one of a cult that tries to silence, crush, erase, discredit ANYTHING that remotely might be perceived as the slightest threat to its creditability. Its THEIR fear, that drives everything. Its the ultra defensiveness. Not simply the other way round, with women unfairly and irrationally being prejudiced.

This is why women talking can never win. Whatever we do, it will never be enough, because our biology and certainly acknowledging biology is unacceptable and will always be a threat. The complete erasure of women is the only outcome that possible conclusion point - this is why you get young women supporting the idea, because they still haven't fully had the experience of their elders and how your body won't let you escape this no matter how much you might try to fit it as well as nice woke young men who have been sucked up by frankly incel thinking that 'equality has completed' or even 'gone too far'. They just have complete blindness to numerous issues that women face daily - cos 'invisible women'.

All things lead to this conclusion point.

The problem with authoritarism is that reality is inescapable and injustices created by authoritarism will always eventually backfire as if you can lie about what everyone knows to ultimately be true, what else can you lie about? And this is why political parties pushing this will eventually implode over it and why the far right parties pushing other bullshit will eventually implode in their own time too - they only questions are why and how much damage gets done in the process. This is coupled with a parallel issue over economic fortunes and an inability of traditional political parties to adapt to changing economic conditions so you are getting parallel political effects - when you have economic crisis the public will always turn away from those they perceive to be failing and be more open to alternative narratives. It makes it easy for the existing political elite to see backlashes as one cohort rather than multiple backlashes - its a matter of convenience to suggest they are the same because it means they can continue to avoid some truths closer to home. Add in a splash of pride and arrogance and you have a bunch of people who can't possibly face up to the concept of 'actually maybe I'm wrong'.

What's notable on this thread amongst the women saying when they were in their teens / twenties that they wished they'd been male, is they've all expressed this point - "I was wrong". Funny isn't it? And what we recognise collectively is that Affirmation Only removes the time and space to come to the same conclusion we did.

TheKeatingFive · 10/01/2026 15:43

Ereshkigalangcleg · 10/01/2026 15:37

What they want is for there to be no way to object.

Exactly

Men can't be expected to obey the law. Women aren't allowed to question them.

Upshot, men get everything they want. As usual. 🙄

CautiousLurker2 · 10/01/2026 16:25

Just seen an X post, reposted by loads of people including Kate Barker-Mawjee, about two trans women at the NAG awards last night in the women’s toilets. Yes, they looked pretty in a feminised, hypersexualised MTV kind of way, but even before one stood up and revealed the 7ft stature [likely an exaggeration but yep, they were bloody tall], it was obvious to every woman in the room they were male. Oh, but we’d never be able to tell… really?

And there was a gender neutral toilet right next door. Wonder why they didn’t use it?

This is why we’ll never resolve the trans issue.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 10/01/2026 16:37

CautiousLurker2 · 10/01/2026 16:25

Just seen an X post, reposted by loads of people including Kate Barker-Mawjee, about two trans women at the NAG awards last night in the women’s toilets. Yes, they looked pretty in a feminised, hypersexualised MTV kind of way, but even before one stood up and revealed the 7ft stature [likely an exaggeration but yep, they were bloody tall], it was obvious to every woman in the room they were male. Oh, but we’d never be able to tell… really?

And there was a gender neutral toilet right next door. Wonder why they didn’t use it?

This is why we’ll never resolve the trans issue.

absolutely! Plus they just have known the event was happening so we're being deliberately provocative. I started a thread on it

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5473498-men-in-womens-bathroom-at-not-all-gays-awards

Pingponghavoc · 10/01/2026 17:27

I'm reminded of Suzzane Moores comment about women expected to look like Brazilian transsexuals. And Germaine Greer saying men are able to perform 'femininity' better than women because its by men for men.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 10/01/2026 17:41

What was positive was all the younger? women's voices saying "you're a man and shouldn't be in here". There was a time when women were far to frightened to speak up but not this time.

Greyskybluesky · 10/01/2026 17:53

MrsOvertonsWindow · 10/01/2026 17:41

What was positive was all the younger? women's voices saying "you're a man and shouldn't be in here". There was a time when women were far to frightened to speak up but not this time.

Yes, I loved that. " You're a man. You're a maaaan!"

OpheliaWitchoftheWoods · 10/01/2026 17:53

CautiousLurker2 · 10/01/2026 16:25

Just seen an X post, reposted by loads of people including Kate Barker-Mawjee, about two trans women at the NAG awards last night in the women’s toilets. Yes, they looked pretty in a feminised, hypersexualised MTV kind of way, but even before one stood up and revealed the 7ft stature [likely an exaggeration but yep, they were bloody tall], it was obvious to every woman in the room they were male. Oh, but we’d never be able to tell… really?

And there was a gender neutral toilet right next door. Wonder why they didn’t use it?

This is why we’ll never resolve the trans issue.

It's an example of the bloody awful behaviour of men and their refusal to respect women. It's not at all impossible to undo, you just need a government that isn't frantic to get dicks among undressed non consenting women. (Physically and behaviourally.)

The answer is what these women did - Say no. Ask them to leave and use the facilities (choice of two) available to them. Make a fuss. Film it. Complain. Repeat, loudly, that these men are breaking the law and have no right at all to be there. Get security. Put it on social media. Keep the feet of politicians to the fire and be loud and clear that women don't want men in their spaces. The ones that do can go in the gender neutral facilities.

There will be those who delight in all the attention and drama, but we keep being told this is a tiny minority of anti social men and we shouldn't judge the entire community by this behaviour.

logiccalls · 10/01/2026 17:54

The 'trans' issue is resolved: Not that it was ever in doubt, but the Supreme Court confirms nobody can change sex. Therefore, there can be no such thing as 'trans'. Therefore, none of us should use the word. If there is a man, call him a man. Legally, nobody must be forced to call him anything else. The 'issue' is ended.

CautiousLurker2 · 10/01/2026 17:56

MrsOvertonsWindow · 10/01/2026 17:41

What was positive was all the younger? women's voices saying "you're a man and shouldn't be in here". There was a time when women were far to frightened to speak up but not this time.

That was my first reaction - we are constantly being told that we are middle aged/old aged dinosaurs and that younger women are completely happy to share their spaces with TW. They promoted the idea that it’s just ‘dinosaurs’ [the old] who are failing to be progressive, because it gaslights young women into believing they are abnormal, are in the minority and effectively silences them. It’s much easier to promote ‘anti-trans hate’ as being dished out by venomous old women - modern day witches I guess.

DrBlackbird · 10/01/2026 18:06

MyAmpleSheep · 10/01/2026 13:56

There is so much wrong with that poster’s contributions that it’s hard to know where to start.

I do get a very strong vibe that someone has an autistic trans-identifying daughter, has bought in to the trans genderwang and is in the early stages of regret. It’s about making herself feel better about the choices she made for her daughter.

Yes, clearly this, which is very sad.

Except there’s also a mention of being the ‘cool’ parent who affirms all the trans kids and in doing so is perhaps contributing to other parent’s children being isolated away from their own families. We often read posts from despairing parents whose trans identifying kids were being encouraged to live at another ‘affirming’ parent’s house. I hope that Transparent is not one of those people.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 10/01/2026 22:14

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 10/01/2026 04:26

Trans children are suffering enormously because of ridiculous aggression like this.

They are suicidal because of the horrific bullying that transphobia inspires.

It's constant, very sexual and extremely violent. Most trans children don't take their exams because they miss so much school due to the harassment.

Shouting 'misogyny' isn't an argument, it's deflection.

Consider the impact of your behaviour upon trans children please. It's very real.

Many of those "trans children" are neurodivergent and mistake the symptoms of their neurodivergence for gender dysphoria. Autistic people comprise 1-3% of the population, yet 48% of the girls referred to Tavi had an autism diagnosis or showed autistic traits. These children do not need transition hormones and surgery, but instead need tailored support for their neurodivergence. How can you read this thread and still not recognise this?

Consider the impact of your behaviour upon neurodivergent children please. It's very real.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 10/01/2026 22:34

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 10/01/2026 08:02

You do know trans men exist, right?

Through my children, I know a few young trans women. Not one of them has the support of their families, all are struggling to find work and they've experienced street violence.

Yet they're happy, have partners and friends. They have a basic contentment due to living as themselves.

Calling them 'men' and being deeply hostile to them doesn't alter any of that. Aggression solves absolutely nothing.

Again, no one would be trans unless it meant everything to them. I hope you can understand the sacrifices, very real danger and discrimination involved in them living as themselves

Earlier in this thread, you said: Being trans is a tiny part of who my child is.

You now say: no one would be trans unless it meant everything to them.

These statements are mutually exclusive. That you believe both indicates considerable cognitive dissonance on your part. I invite you to examine that cognitive dissonance and its underlying causes.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 10/01/2026 22:39

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 10/01/2026 08:09

Trans women are a minority, and one subjected to exactly the same misogyny and sexual violence as other women.

Public spaces are not safe. At all. Sex offenders can and do strike anywhere, and pretending they need to dress up first is an insult to victims. Any offender who wishes to access single-sex spaces will simply do it - and wearing a hi-vis, carrying a mop or pretending to be a trans man will be enough to stop him being challenged.

There is only safety in numbers and lockable cubicles for women. And even then, it's relative.

I think we need to confront the reality of cis male violence, not pretend they have a system.

No, they are not subjected to the same misogyny as women. They are not subjected to the fear of and risk of forced pregnancy through rape.

😂 that we'd mistake a man for a trans-identifying woman.

PennyLaneisinmyheartandmysoul · 10/01/2026 22:42

Gender wang is the perfect term, I’ve spent today with my 2yo who is insisting he is a trex… raaaarrr!
im absolutely bored by the attention seeking people and their cheerleaders who are so self important that they demand total capitulation.
if my 2 yo was insisting he was a girl we’d be celebrated and pushed to the trans nonsense, where’s that for dinos?…. 🦖🦕

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 10/01/2026 22:50

TransParentlyAnnoyed · 10/01/2026 08:19

No, I'm saying trans women are minority women.

And trans men are minority men.

Women are harassed and abused because violent men hate them. They're told they look too masculine or feminine, that they've too much or too little effort to look feminine - basically for any reason.

That happens to trans women too.

Depressingly, what unites all women isn't biology, fertility or experience. We're all too different to categorise. What we all have in common is being scared of violent cis men, being harassed and assaulted by them. Held up as not being as good as them.

All of us.

Trans women live with the same fear of being attacked for appearance as we do. They don't have male privilege.

What we all have in common is being scared of violent cis men, being harassed and assaulted by them. Held up as not being as good as them.

Why are women scared of men? I'll give you some picture clues.

How is the trans issue ever going to be resolved?
How is the trans issue ever going to be resolved?
selffellatingouroborosofhate · 10/01/2026 22:59

CautiousLurker2 · 10/01/2026 09:41

When I went to bed last night this place was a warm and supportive space where women with a raft of different experiences had shared their issues and given varied contextual backgrounds to why, had they been growing up now, being trans or NB would have seemed attractive. We shared reasons why we were/are ‘dysphoric’ as we now understand that term/diagnosis, why having male-appendaged people in our intimate spaces causes emotional and psychological distress.

We discussed the factors that lead young girls to transition/trans identify. There was no ‘anti-trans hate’. There were no longer aggressively toned, abusive and accusatory posts. Just a discussion about the ways we need to change and learn if we are to understand WHY girls - autistic - feel this way and how better to support them.

The thread I opened this morning is light years away - and totally evidences and demonstrates why, No, we will never likely resolve the trans issue because there are still women [?] out there who want to prioritise the needs and wants of MEN who trans identify over the needs of women - including the needs of WOMEN who identify as men (trans men). It’s all about the men, isn’t it?

There is no trans hate, as far as I can see, amongst 99% of the women posting - just a deep, viscerally experienced need to ensure that women can have single sexed spaces where they need them, spaces that exclude biological males. We would like separate protected spaces for those people so that if they are indeed vulnerable and fear assault they can feel safer [though Ironically that is NOT what they, themselves, are asking for. Funny, that].

I am so sad that the scolders come on to rebuke, and to prove that we may never be able to meter out solutions because, ultimately, they couldn’t give a shit about the rights of women - autistic ones, menopausal ones, muslim/jewish ones, the black ones, the poor ones, the abused ones, the childless ones, nor the trans identifying ones. It’s all about the men.

That poster demonstrated, by turning up in this space, exactly why women-only spaces are needed for healing and recovery.

nicepotoftea · 10/01/2026 23:17

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 10/01/2026 22:39

No, they are not subjected to the same misogyny as women. They are not subjected to the fear of and risk of forced pregnancy through rape.

😂 that we'd mistake a man for a trans-identifying woman.

Edited

That entire post is based on a fantasy that trans identifying men pass and that sex is irrelevant.

It is not ‘kind’ to suggest to children that this is true..

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 10/01/2026 23:28

CautiousLurker2 · 10/01/2026 10:39

I think I’ll have a chat with my Prof at Uni and see if I can get some support/funding for it as a post doc project? She does work with DV survivors, and her project publishes stories and essays by the women she works with.

Am thinking it could be great therapy, create community IRL, and produce something tangible that we could share and maybe use any proceeds [lol] for charitable purposes to support more research into girls and mothers with autism?

I'm not a mother, but I'm up for this if child-free autistic women are in scope.

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 10/01/2026 23:45

CautiousLurker2 · 10/01/2026 16:25

Just seen an X post, reposted by loads of people including Kate Barker-Mawjee, about two trans women at the NAG awards last night in the women’s toilets. Yes, they looked pretty in a feminised, hypersexualised MTV kind of way, but even before one stood up and revealed the 7ft stature [likely an exaggeration but yep, they were bloody tall], it was obvious to every woman in the room they were male. Oh, but we’d never be able to tell… really?

And there was a gender neutral toilet right next door. Wonder why they didn’t use it?

This is why we’ll never resolve the trans issue.

One of them issued a threat on his way out. It's discussed on the thread. How typically male...

CautiousLurker2 · 10/01/2026 23:47

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 10/01/2026 23:28

I'm not a mother, but I'm up for this if child-free autistic women are in scope.

Thank you - have pencilled in a meeting with my Prof in a couple of weeks to explore how we would frame the project/research question, but I think I might try to centre AuDHD/ASD/ADHD women’s broader experience of ‘womanhood’ [or their sexed selves to be more defined/explicit] and look at collating memoir and essays. I might even break it into volumes - one on motherhood, one on navigating relationships/DV, one on how ND frames creativity as a lot of female creative/ arts lecturers are ND, and so forth - still in the brain-storming phase, but actually more exited by this idea than finishing my PhD [hello, ADHD, new shiny thing…]

GaIadriel · 11/01/2026 23:44

Not read the whole thread but what about transmen? Are they driven by sexual fetish or is the general belief that gender dysphoria is real in women?

I've only met a couple and they seemed pretty serious about wanting to present as male. I didn't know either particularly well but there didn't seem to be the desperate need for attention you see with many transwomen.

CautiousLurker2 · 11/01/2026 23:51

GaIadriel · 11/01/2026 23:44

Not read the whole thread but what about transmen? Are they driven by sexual fetish or is the general belief that gender dysphoria is real in women?

I've only met a couple and they seemed pretty serious about wanting to present as male. I didn't know either particularly well but there didn't seem to be the desperate need for attention you see with many transwomen.

Women and teen girls’ (especially ASD/ADHD girls’), motivations for desiring to ‘transition’ are discussed at length and in some depth within the thread.

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