Potential WI Schism

[Igneococcus]

I know there is WI thread but a cannae find it right now:
https://www.thetimes.com/article/c73091fd-d02e-4951-8866-3add883013cf?shareToken=8cfa38d472492bacc9f602cc068c4536

Triplet number 3 is clearly doughnut gender, and you have cruelly misgendered doughnuthey/doughnuthem/doughnutself.

You cannot possibly believe that the only way to determine sex is by checking genitals?! And that even if it was it would be a requirement?!

Firstly, if you genuinely can’t tell what sex your parents, colleagues, DC or friends are then you should be seeking help.

Secondly, like many societal requirements we set the rules and then expect people to adhere. If creepy men stayed out of women’s clubs, sports and toilets then no one would ever need to check.

You are so right. God I'm a terrible beetle.

I'll take myself out back and have myself flogged.

Excuse you with your prejudice, but poor number 3 is scone-with-clotted-cream-and-jam gender.

Some people are just really good at pretending that utter crap is true, as they can do the mental gymnastics/ketman.

'But ketman as used by Miłosz means something more than just simulation. It goes deeper than mere lying. Ketman reaches deeper into the soul than simple hypocrisy. Ketman deceives the deceiver, as much as the person being deceived.

Time and again, Miłosz returns to the metaphor of an actor on stage. It is a continuous performance, allowing those who engage in it to survive the sensation of living with a divided mind.'

https://aeon.co/ideas/ketman-and-doublethink-what-it-costs-to-comply-with-tyranny

I think I could use a quote of yours @Greyskybluesky ”But please don't use that case of male violence to pressure women into accepting men into their spaces.”

and say

Please don’t pressure women into excluding trans women from their spaces.

I want to be trans inclusive and the recent court case is forcing my hand to have to be sneaky about something I am not ashamed of - I have trans women as friends and spend time with them in female only spaces. I have trans men as friends and they are unhappy and scared, now of angry women as well as angry men.

All for what? People in favour of forcing same sex spaces based on genitalia seem really unhappy despite saying they’ve “won”?

I don’t get the end goal? Reduce rapes? Reduce male entitlement? Decrease toxic masculinity? I can see a million ways to actually progress that goal that this line does not achieve. That man is already hitting his next partner. That judge is sitting on several cases a day and making women wish they were dead rather than continue to go through the family court process. You could be doing so much more for women than this.

Join HASSL. They have great merch (bonus) and actually address women’s safety issues in a way that is making a difference.

Yes, the next couple of months will be "interesting" for the WI. The spotlight is well and truly on them now.

I know WI members who are hanging on for April because they don't want to renew and are split broadly into 2 groups.
Group A thinks WI should be women only.
Group B is be kind, but nevertheless is fed up of the trans focus.

WI needs to act with clarity and fast to protect their income because currently they're pissing everybody off.

'I have trans women as friends and spend time with them in female only spaces.'

As soon as a male enters a female-only space, it becomes a mixed sex space. It doesn't matter how lovely the bloke is, if you lie about their sex, prioritise their special identity or how great a friend you are with them.

Why did you want to join a women only organisation if you want men to be included?

There's a lot of members who want this 'be nice thing' who don't understand practical implications. They think they can just dodge the rules, whilst also outside of their insurance.

Hmmm. So what happens when a pissed off existing member who doesn't agree with the sisterhood idea, feels pushed out by a man when she thought she was in a women's only club, and the group in question is operating outside their insurance?

Oh dear, you've just opened your sisterhood meeting up to getting your arses dragged through the legal system when you aren't covered by the WI insurance.

Oh.

Again with the genitalia. Which no one has mentioned but you. Please widen your focus.

'I want to be trans inclusive and the recent court case is forcing my hand to have to be sneaky'

How about this radical solution - obey the law.
If you want a group that includes your lovely male friends who identify as trans, start a mixed sex group so they can all be included (no sneaky lawbreaking required).

"If you want a group that includes your lovely male friends who identify as trans, start a mixed sex group so they can all be included (no sneaky lawbreaking required)."

This!
It's really simple to understand!

Flashback to 2022.

It was a shit argument then. It's only got weaker.

The end goal? To be able to define ‘woman’ in law as a sex class. As people are now finding, this clarification of existing law has implications, because the existence of women, not being men, has implications.

Meet who you want, how you want. Set up a Femininity Institute, a Rural/Urban Pursuits Institute, a Pub Discussions Gathering Group, do what the fuck you like. You just can’t use funding and structures dedicated to women to benefit men. Because women exist and the crashing insult that what a woman’s group really needs to be acceptable is a bit more cock involved isn’t legal any more.

Hahaha 🤣 Are we still experimenting with this razor sharp gotcha?

Funnily enough the social contract that has made single sex spaces operable for decades still applies - until that is men claiming to be women break/are breaking it.

There’s also this amazing thing called evolution, and eyes, which means we clock each other’s sex in a couple of seconds. Women do it even faster than men - can’t think why that would be an evolutionary advantage?

0/10. Must try harder.

the crashing insult that what a woman’s group really needs to be acceptable is a bit more cock involved isn’t legal any more

👏Brava for that sentence alone @PermanentTemporary !

I love these posts, you’re saying all the quiet parts out loud. Keep going, get a loud hailer, the internet is basically a book of receipts.

There’s no such thing as a trans woman, as men cannot transition to become women. They can take cross sex hormones, have plastic surgery on their secondary sexual characteristics, mess with their male body however they like. But a woman is not a surgically altered man.

Of course the vast majority of men don’t do the above. They change their name, their hair, their clothing and wear woman as a costume. Still men, every last one of them. There is no category of women that includes men. Only in men’s fantasies.

Many women have male friends and easily manage to not bring them into female-only spaces. It seems you want an exception to this for yourself, regardless of how other women feel about it.

Thank you and 😂

You can't class transwomen TIMs as women because they are men. They look like men, they act like men and under the equality act according to the SCJ they are classified as men.
That's the law. Even if they have a GRC, fake tits and no cock. Still men.
Everything else is window dressing and irrelevant. No men in women's spaces. No exceptions.

You are most welcome. 😊 I know the vagaries of AI and often resort to manual editing of my images.

We don't need to check genitals. Browline on its own is very accurate from a sideways or three-quarter view. Take a picture of Buck Angel and cover from the nose down, you'll see what I mean.

Then there are other clues: hip-shoulder ratio, gait, jawline, and voice.

High heels? Lipstick? No, I've got it. Long hair!
Nooooo um... all the sexiest men have long hair. Er... is it because they say so?

“If we class trans women as men” 😂 mate, most people think of them as men, not women. They maybe feel a bit sorry for them, but they know what sex they are.