What taf is wrong with men?!

[guinnessguzzler]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c78vgm0e3zzo

Wtaf?! After the Pelicot case in France, and I'm sure someone posted about a similar situation in Germany the other day, and now this. Why are they so awful?

And yes I know it's not all men but ffs.

Shocking. I hasn’t heard about this case. I wonder how they actually start a conversation about ‘would you be interested in sexually assaulting my wife’! Hope they get the long sentences they deserve.

There's a lot of crossover there with the Pelicot case, not just the drugging and raping his Ex but all the other charges- the indecent images of DC, extreme porn, voyeurism- it's like a cascade, they start small and build up and up because no sexual thrill is ever enough. They join groups of like minded men because then they don't have to see themselves as the deviant, perverted men they really are.

@AnneElliott I know, that is what always puzzles me with joint endeavour type crimes like this. But then I think there must be an underlying culture that makes it seem ok. Like, I never get offered drugs, people don't tend to say racist stuff in front of me, and no one ever asks me if I'd like to join them in committing a crime. Presumably because it's obvious that I wouldn't be ok with any of those things. So what is going on in our society that these men not only are doing this stuff but also feel ok talking about it and getting others involved?

What taf is wrong with men?!"

--- I mean, where do we fucking start? 🙄

His wife has waived anonymity. Very brave.
Porn is having some truly toxic effects.

And people wonder why women are adamant about keeping things female only🙄 it's fucking disturbing how these men find eachother and see nothing wrong with what they're doing. I hope they get theirs when they get locked up🤞

Start small and pretend it’s a ‘fantasy’. Then escalate.

Which is why all the bullshit about ‘kink shaming’ and deciding BDSM is mainstream, porn is everywhere, sex work is normalised, strip clubs and on and on are actually dangerous. Men can micro-dose each other, and women, with rape-fantasy. And then it turns into reality.

Am I the only one that wants to strap men up to lie detectors and preemptively lock all the scum on islands without women and children? Not really, blah blah Court system, jury trial etc. But these men are evil.

Group offences like this are a whole different ball game. I attended an international conference some years ago about the peculiarities and horrors that group sex offences throw up.

It's so dangerous because men who wouldn't necessarily offend alone (or would ever offend at all) will do it when part of a group. They will and they do.

It's the thing I personally both hate and fear the most of all offences, I'm sorry to say, even above paedophilliia (although It often goes hand in hand).

It is such an horrific phenomenon. It seems to have the ability to induce men who have no other paraphilias or offending history to do horrific things, even at a moments notice. The scale in which it has the potential to grow should a single inch be given is horrifying.

I apologise if this post is offensive to anyone. It really is an issue that I have dealt with and don't think it is taken at all seriously enough.

I wonder if the Pelicot case gave Ms Young the courage to come forward.
How many more of these cases must there be still unknown. WTF is wrong with some men!?

They communicate online using chatrooms and forums set up for the purpose. There's no need to carefully sound out another man's interest when you've all joined a forum called "drug assisted wife rape" or similar.

And yes I know it's not all men but ffs.

Rule Ten alert. Women should not waste our energy participating in the NAMALT-shaped PR damage control for the sex that commits over 95% of sexual offending.

My guess is men get this way partly because it's not about sex. It's about power and status. It's a way of expressing dominance.

The problem with being in the top dog sex caste is you're sentenced to a lifelong quest to prove you belong there. Sex, by itself, is something that happens between partners. It's about fun and enjoyment, not dominance. Sort of like the difference between a hilarrious party with best friends as opposed to a mandatory office Christmas party. (Nor does it get boring. That's another tell that it's not about sex: the need for more and more and more stimulation.)

If you want to use sex to prove top dogliness, it becomes a thing of bragging rights and outcompeting other guys and doing more and weirder and nastier stuff that they validate as bigger and better.

That makes it part of the same mental country as fratboy hazing or trolling or torture and sadism. Those also get worse and more extreme for some participants until they end in people dying.

Women may be a bit less susceptible only because they're not often given enough status to get into a doom loop of showing how they're the toppest dog in the pack.

But genuinely, it isn't all men. Yes, over 95% of sexual offending is done by men, but that does not mean over 95% of men are sexual offenders, does it.

We have this conversation A LOT. The fact is that it is a disturbing number of men. From monsters so vile you can’t think about it, through rapists who don’t use additional violence, to men consuming violent porn, and being ‘just’ emotionally coercive. Then you get men who say those things; rape jokes and justification and minimising. Then men who don’t actively do harm. There’s few enough of those.

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the way to men who are actually allies. Who try to prevent harm. Who stand up for us. And there are vanishingly few.

Put men into a situation that is conducive to sexual violence and where they don't think they will be caught… a lot of them would. More than you’d think. If you take the Gisele Pelicot case and do some simple maths on the population of the surrounding area, and she was just one victim… Many men would.

There was a similar case in Germany the other day, wasn't there? The men for whom this was just a dark thought they kept to themselves, are now emboldened.

It bothers me that there have been three cases this year. It suggests either this is widespread and only currently publicised, or that it’s a new phenomenon and catching on. I’m not sure which is worse, that it’s normal but only made visible recently or that it’s actually new but spreading fast.

Did you read Rule Ten?

"The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad."

When we say NAMALT, we are taking time to make men not look bad when we should be supporting the victims and asking how we stop it from happening again.

Yes, very brave woman. I imagine that she will inspire so many others to leave abusive relationships.

I suspect that the astonishing bravery of Madame Pelicot (Chevalier de Legion d'Honneur) has made the penny drop for a lot of women who have previously been puzzled about memory gaps, unexplained genital pain, waking up with her PJs on backwards, etc. These women are digging, perhaps finding things on computers, and coming forwards.

I'm sure you're probably right, but Jeez, what a thought.

Yes,. This. Stop it happening again by talking to our boys about how vile we find men who do this. Connect the behaviour to porn, sexualised power and misogyny. Build a positive image of what they can be. Boys need to realise how positive their risk taking creativity can be but also the dark side of their biology.

He had been a borough councillor. He had 230 indecent images of children.

It's like some kind of Tory version of David Challenor.

I think Joanne Young is so incredibly brave declining anonymity. She is not the one who needs to be ashamed. Something has gone very wrong in the wiring of some men. I can’t even imagine the lies they must tell themselves to live with such depravity.

I was flabbergasted when I saw that. Brave of her to waive her anonymity. The husband looks so ordinary. He’s a former conservative councillor too.

It’s not new. These charges cover 13 years of rape and assault. Pelicot was also decades. Not sure about the case in Germany.