What taf is wrong with men?!

[guinnessguzzler]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c78vgm0e3zzo

Wtaf?! After the Pelicot case in France, and I'm sure someone posted about a similar situation in Germany the other day, and now this. Why are they so awful?

And yes I know it's not all men but ffs.

Yes, Pelicot's assaults on Giselle began in 2011, he seems to have been a sex offender since 1991.

I found the thread earlier today here, and now this

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5462859-germanys-own-pelicot-case

I am so sick of reading story after story about male violence on women. When will it end 😭

I think a pp is right though that more will do it in a group than would ever dare alone.

yes dear. They will pick you.

Porn drove the initial surge of the internet and it has been expanding ever since, corrupting more and more men. Gisele Pelicot said that she believed her husband's behaviour was driven by porn. It teaches men to objectify women and treat them as nothing more than sex toys for men. The fact that millions of men are now regular consumers is terrifying - I would not like to be a young woman in today's world. It's getting worse rather than better.

Not that long ago over 70,000 men were in just one of multiple Telegram groups. This particular group, and others, was for men to discuss how to drug, assault and rape women. These men would also upload photos and videos, including live videos of themselves doing the unthinkable to their wives, girlfriends, female family members...

Earlier this year a Facebook group called My Wife, 30,000 members, also shut down. Men sharing intimate photo's of their wives and girlfriends without their consent.

What we know is likely just the tip of a catastrophic iceberg.

At the rate we're going, more and more women will abandon dating, and quit embarking in relationships with men for good as it's becoming increasingly clear that it's such a high risk endeavour.

They're pathetic. Hopefully they'll die lonely as we're all refusing to take any further risks, and they'll just wank themselves to an early death.

@1984Now Agree, the courage Joanne Young is showing is incredible.

I don't know what it will take for society to get serious about violence, including sexual violence, against women and the harmful role pornography is playing.

In a way, I envy women who sincerely think NAMALT.

I grew up without a father, but with a pedophilic, rapist, incestuous grandfather. Every time the family was together, I would hear the sexual jokes my uncles would make, and how everyone would laugh. When I was 13 and already physically well-developed, my favourite uncle, my mother's only brother, sexually assaulted me. So I grew up with the more or less conscious understanding that yes, all men are like that, and that individual men had to earn a woman's trust, that no man was above suspicion.

And yet, even then, when I started taking testosterone, I was horrified by how much it changed my sex drive, how it made me see women.

So what's wrong with these men? Nothing IMO. They are just men. The way I see it, it's the ones who don't do these things, and even more so those who wouldn't do them in a group setting, under peer pressure, who are very much the exception.

We need to ban online porn and punish the men who watch it and the social media companies that broadcast it. And there needs to be a rapid expansion of chemical testosterone reduction for male prisoners convicted of violent and sexual crimes. And longer prison sentences for crimes against women (actual women!) – if women aren’t safe around you, you can’t be released into society because women are more than half of society. Note the total lack of any political party anywhere in the world, as far as I’m aware, prepared to address any of this.

What an amazing and brave woman, but I am sick of women having to step up like this (not to mention the impact it has on any family, kids etc) because so many men are such disgusting, violent creeps.

Yes I am sure you’re right.
Also that women who knew but didn’t dare go to the police because they thought they wouldn’t be believed will have been more hopeful, and women who DID go to the police and were not believed because it was all too far fetched, will have been taken more seriously.
Mme Pelicot will also have shown there is life after reporting.

Ok, I kind of redact my earlier statement that NAMALT. What I meant was that my husband was pretty much impotent when I first met him- it took a lot of tries and patience before we were having successful sex that ended in climax- and my brothers grew up in a family of strong women, and my father regards himself as a feminist. The men I'm closest to are (almost guaranteed) not like that. I know that all men have the potential to be rapists, I'm unfortunate enough that my first relationship (as a teenager) was with a teenager who frankly needed chemical castration.

Did anyone here see Yoko Ono's One More Story exhibition in Reykjavik in 2016 (I think)? It was walls plastered with statements that women had emailed into the museum and several massive ring binders full of more of the same, each telling a story of an assault or similar by a man on a woman. Mine was in it.

Men have committed sexually violent acts against women since probably forever. I don't know what the solution is.

"Not all men" but this man and many others.

Is that him? That smug smirk. He's a "councillor and businessman" according to the news.

I always wondered what the remit of "businessman" was. Some one who owns a company? A qualifying accountancy skill?

I’m sure there are many many many more cases out there. Unsuspecting women too.

Wtf is wrong with men? Who knows? But so many women continue to be their victims. It’s horrible.

he had decided to leave politics to devote more time to his family

I wonder if there was some lower level (compared to his list of alleged crimes) offending like sexual harassment going on at work and he was given this option. Also is this phrase only used for people with children? If so I am really hoping the children weren’t in the house when all this was happening.

The debate around NAMALT etc is a very similar tactic to what Jess Phillips uses which is to avoid talking about certain groups and certain types of men. It's all men, well you could say it's all humans, it's all mammals etc.

The grooming gangs was very much based around a particular racial/cultural subset of men (and in that case a very specific region of a specific country). This particular set of crimes features many different races and cultures, but there will be something common between all of them (the XY chromosomes, they're all men is too broad).

Trials focus on the crime, but I really think with sex offenders there needs to be an investigation into the offenders backgrounds. I suspect that these men have committed low-level offences previously (that were never dealt with) and escalated.

They can also investigate how these men connected with each other, because the internet allows people who would otherwise be isolated with their dangerous interests connect and normalise themselves.

I genuinely don’t think this is new. Society is structured around men as main characters with women there to facilitate their lives in whatever way that means. It’s not a surprise many men apply that sexually too.

I know it’s a stupid thing to say….but I cannot get over how “regular” he looks.

I can’t stand it when women come onto threads like this and wax lyrical about how amazing their husbands/fathers etc. are. Get a clue. Firstly, it is so disgustingly insensitive to go on about how wonderful the men in your life are when women are sharing stories about their awful experiences. Secondly, you have absolutely no idea what those men may be doing when they are not in your presence. Because all these women, girls and even animals are being raped, tortured and harmed by someone, and it ain’t women is it?

Is there any information about how this case came to light?
I can’t see anything in the articles I’ve looked at. Gisèle Pelicot learned about her rapes because her then husband committed a completely unrelated sexual crime and a police officer didn’t just stop at that one crime but took things further (and I believe was if not sanctioned them certainly not rewarded for that in his own career).

So I’m wondering whether this is another crime that was uncovered almost accidentally or whether women are genuinely beginning to be more aware of this risk and going to the police with doubts - and then being believed.

Fine. NAMALT… however there have been several recent studies that find how young men are open about using coercion and force in the face of female sexual refusal. Eg in one study, one-third of college male participants said they would "force a woman to [have] sexual intercourse if they could do so without consequences". One third who admit to that. Substantially more than the 5% actually jailed for sexual assault.

NAMALT but a lot (enough!) are like that. Sexual assault is absolutely rampant on both uk and us campuses to the point of it being of concern in the UK Office for Students who have started to run a survey. One quarter of finalists report sexual harassment including rape and attempted rape.

Young men encouraged (conditioned?) to think and act "like that". Perhaps increasingly so thanks to constant implicit and explicit messaging about male dominance, male rights, enduring rape myths, and hyper masculinity etc. spread in films, in the wide availability of pornography, music, and online.

IMO, mothers of young men should not believe it could never be their sons because they brought them up to respect women. You have no idea of the prevalence of belief in sexual ‘rights’ and the persistence of rape myths that circulate in the shared thinking that goes on. The easy acceptance of talking about rape and thinking in a casually hypersexualised manner.

@Seethlaw I’m so sorry for what has happened to you when you were young and vulnerable.

But when you say "they are just men" are you really saying that sexual assault and the sexual degradation inflicted on women is just down to testosterone? You might have a change in your sex drive since starting csh’s but are you also saying that this means you’d drug and rape women? I’d be surprised if that’s what you’re saying but open to hearing more of your thoughts.

I agree, to a certain extent. Since history began, in almost every culture, men have owned and oppressed women at a structural level. Men have always been seen as fully rational human beings, while women are...not, even by other women.

So while internet porn is damaging and unhelpful, before videoed or photographed porn - when drawings were all that was possible - women were still seen as objects there for men's usage, whether that be menial, sexual, or otherwise.

What internet porn has done is create wilder extremes of what is done to women, normalising sadism and refining degradation to a disgusting art form.

Expectations of what women should be willing to do sexually is far more extreme, and society is grooming women to want that for themselves too - masochistic and Stockholm syndromed (figuratively speaking). I do think that's a big part of why so many teens, particularly girls, are 'asexual' these days; the sexual landscape is a frightening, disturbing place that they don't want to go to.

Internet porn affects boys and girls from a young age, and it has shaped and warped the society around them, so that even if they don't personally view it (accidentally, out of curiosity, or because a peer showed them) they live in a world that's shaped by it. It makes boys see women and girls as highly sexualised objects, even more so than they used to, and makes them want to do ever more sadist things.

The internet also allows sexual offenders to find each other so easily, when otherwise they might be isolated and more fearful. They gain in confidence, they swap tips, and they hunt in packs, egging each other on. They also, I imagine, groom bitter, lonely boys into becoming active offenders, and reassure each other that their behaviour is normal and justified.

The internet creates a mob mentality - the sort you might see amongst soldiers in war, who seem to be totally normal, law-abiding men before going away to war, and who end up raping civilian women and children in packs.