Page 3 | What taf is wrong with men?!

guinnessguzzler · 2025-12-22T19:23:10+00:00

[[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c78vgm0e3zzo https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c78vgm0e3zzo]] Wtaf?! After the Pelicot case in France, and I'm sure someone posted about a similar situation in Germany the other day, and now this. Why are they so awful? And yes I know it's not all men but ffs.

OtterlyAstounding · 23/12/2025 10:48

Emilesgran · 23/12/2025 10:23

Is there any information about how this case came to light?
I can’t see anything in the articles I’ve looked at. Gisèle Pelicot learned about her rapes because her then husband committed a completely unrelated sexual crime and a police officer didn’t just stop at that one crime but took things further (and I believe was if not sanctioned them certainly not rewarded for that in his own career).

So I’m wondering whether this is another crime that was uncovered almost accidentally or whether women are genuinely beginning to be more aware of this risk and going to the police with doubts - and then being believed.

I hope that this is the case, and that Gisèle Pelicot's bravery has created a new awareness of the type of crime that's leading other women to recognise what's happening to them.

OtterlyAstounding · 23/12/2025 10:53

Artmumcreative · 22/12/2025 22:44

But genuinely, it isn't all men. Yes, over 95% of sexual offending is done by men, but that does not mean over 95% of men are sexual offenders, does it.

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And not all American XL Bully dogs are dangerous (I would wager the vast majority have never attacked a person), and yet as a breed they are effectively banned in the UK.

So I fail to see the point you're trying to make.

theministerscat · 23/12/2025 11:05

junipery · 23/12/2025 09:36

he had decided to leave politics to devote more time to his family

I wonder if there was some lower level (compared to his list of alleged crimes) offending like sexual harassment going on at work and he was given this option. Also is this phrase only used for people with children? If so I am really hoping the children weren’t in the house when all this was happening.

Looks like they definitely had a family. Picture from the Swindon Advertiser. This poor woman and his poor bloody kids.

Emilesgran · 23/12/2025 11:08

theministerscat · 23/12/2025 11:05

Looks like they definitely had a family. Picture from the Swindon Advertiser. This poor woman and his poor bloody kids.

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Oh god that makes the child sex abuse images even more concerning.

SwirlyGates · 23/12/2025 11:24

This reply has been hidden

This reply has been hidden until the MNHQ team can have a look at it.

Imgoingtobefree · 23/12/2025 11:29

I’m nearly 70yrs old and I’ve come to the conclusion that many, many men lead a sort of double life.

They learn what is acceptable to say in front of their wives, mothers, sisters, other women. But get them in an all male environment, and especially where masculinity is strong (sports, police, military etc),or alcohol is involved, then what they say to each other, would shock the women who know them.

It may or may not be that your ‘Nigel’ would never follow through with action, but they still allow misogynistic words to leave their lips.

Yes, yes, NAMALT, but it’s a surprisingly large number of men who are like this.

SwirlyGates · 23/12/2025 11:32

Unrelated case of drugging and raping (Morocco, a teenage boy). I can't answer your question OP - there is a LOT wrong with men, but I don't know what or why. Their dicks rule them?

www.themirror.com/news/us-news/boy-13-drugged-gang-raped-1573788

Seethlaw · 23/12/2025 12:16

DrBlackbird · 23/12/2025 10:39

@Seethlaw I’m so sorry for what has happened to you when you were young and vulnerable.

But when you say "they are just men" are you really saying that sexual assault and the sexual degradation inflicted on women is just down to testosterone? You might have a change in your sex drive since starting csh’s but are you also saying that this means you’d drug and rape women? I’d be surprised if that’s what you’re saying but open to hearing more of your thoughts.

Thank you for the kind words 💚

No, I wouldn't drug and rape women, but that's because I wouldn't drug and rape anyone, on principle. I do, however, understand where it comes from, and that's very disturbing.

What I mean... Basically: before the testosterone, I saw (with my physical eyes) women as just people. In a way, they were even the "default" people, because men were both more dangerous and more attractive to me. So women were random people, who happened to have different physical attributes than men, but since I was attracted to men, I paid little attention to those attributes. They were just there, like hair or shoes.

Then I took the testo and... let's just say that suddenly those female attributes were like magnets for my eyes. I literally experienced the "her eyes are up there" situation, over and over again. I regularly feel the urge to turn around to check out a woman's behind. Stuff like that. (And obviously, I've come to realise that I'm not as exclusively male-attracted as I thought.)

Now, maybe there's something wrong specifically with me, but I doubt it, judging by how men routinely talk about women, which completely aligns with my experience. And remember: for me, this experience is abnormal, something that changed. For them, it's the only normal they know.

So yes, I think testosterone has a lot to answer for. Note however that I'm not saying it's an excuse for anything, because men repeatedly show that they are perfectly capable of not harrassing a woman when she has a man nearby to "protect" her - so they can and must learn to do it when the woman is alone as well. No excuses.

ILoveLaLaLand · 23/12/2025 13:07

hholiday · 23/12/2025 08:21

We need to ban online porn and punish the men who watch it and the social media companies that broadcast it. And there needs to be a rapid expansion of chemical testosterone reduction for male prisoners convicted of violent and sexual crimes. And longer prison sentences for crimes against women (actual women!) – if women aren’t safe around you, you can’t be released into society because women are more than half of society. Note the total lack of any political party anywhere in the world, as far as I’m aware, prepared to address any of this.

What an amazing and brave woman, but I am sick of women having to step up like this (not to mention the impact it has on any family, kids etc) because so many men are such disgusting, violent creeps.

hundreds of millions of men and young teenage boys are consuming pornography on smartphones - this is training men to be sexual predators.

The reason the politicians don't do anything is that so many (most?) of them are also consuming porn online.

It's long been said by prostitutes in Brussels that "business" slows down at Xmas and other holidays when the EU HQ closes and the men head home to their families...

ILoveLaLaLand · 23/12/2025 13:09

Seethlaw · 23/12/2025 12:16

Thank you for the kind words 💚

No, I wouldn't drug and rape women, but that's because I wouldn't drug and rape anyone, on principle. I do, however, understand where it comes from, and that's very disturbing.

What I mean... Basically: before the testosterone, I saw (with my physical eyes) women as just people. In a way, they were even the "default" people, because men were both more dangerous and more attractive to me. So women were random people, who happened to have different physical attributes than men, but since I was attracted to men, I paid little attention to those attributes. They were just there, like hair or shoes.

Then I took the testo and... let's just say that suddenly those female attributes were like magnets for my eyes. I literally experienced the "her eyes are up there" situation, over and over again. I regularly feel the urge to turn around to check out a woman's behind. Stuff like that. (And obviously, I've come to realise that I'm not as exclusively male-attracted as I thought.)

Now, maybe there's something wrong specifically with me, but I doubt it, judging by how men routinely talk about women, which completely aligns with my experience. And remember: for me, this experience is abnormal, something that changed. For them, it's the only normal they know.

So yes, I think testosterone has a lot to answer for. Note however that I'm not saying it's an excuse for anything, because men repeatedly show that they are perfectly capable of not harrassing a woman when she has a man nearby to "protect" her - so they can and must learn to do it when the woman is alone as well. No excuses.

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Do you consume porn?

Seethlaw · 23/12/2025 13:13

ILoveLaLaLand · 23/12/2025 13:09

Do you consume porn?

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A bit of written male/male porn. May I ask why you asked me that question?

WindyW · 23/12/2025 13:25

How can we support Joanne Young? I’m in awe of her decision to go public. Is there a way to find out her lawyers and send a postcard of support to them?

Original poster

guinnessguzzler · 23/12/2025 13:44

@WindyW That's a great question. Definitely keen to show support.

OP posts:

Rednorth · 23/12/2025 13:53

Seethlaw · 23/12/2025 12:16

Thank you for the kind words 💚

No, I wouldn't drug and rape women, but that's because I wouldn't drug and rape anyone, on principle. I do, however, understand where it comes from, and that's very disturbing.

What I mean... Basically: before the testosterone, I saw (with my physical eyes) women as just people. In a way, they were even the "default" people, because men were both more dangerous and more attractive to me. So women were random people, who happened to have different physical attributes than men, but since I was attracted to men, I paid little attention to those attributes. They were just there, like hair or shoes.

Then I took the testo and... let's just say that suddenly those female attributes were like magnets for my eyes. I literally experienced the "her eyes are up there" situation, over and over again. I regularly feel the urge to turn around to check out a woman's behind. Stuff like that. (And obviously, I've come to realise that I'm not as exclusively male-attracted as I thought.)

Now, maybe there's something wrong specifically with me, but I doubt it, judging by how men routinely talk about women, which completely aligns with my experience. And remember: for me, this experience is abnormal, something that changed. For them, it's the only normal they know.

So yes, I think testosterone has a lot to answer for. Note however that I'm not saying it's an excuse for anything, because men repeatedly show that they are perfectly capable of not harrassing a woman when she has a man nearby to "protect" her - so they can and must learn to do it when the woman is alone as well. No excuses.

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Firstly, women also produce testosterone (albeit not at the levels of men).

Whilst T increases libido, its BS to simply blame that hormone for male sexual violence...SA is nearly always about power and control, and rarely just sexual gratification.

Seethlaw · 23/12/2025 14:08

Rednorth · 23/12/2025 13:53

Firstly, women also produce testosterone (albeit not at the levels of men).

Whilst T increases libido, its BS to simply blame that hormone for male sexual violence...SA is nearly always about power and control, and rarely just sexual gratification.

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I never said that sexual assault is just about sexual gratification.

Also: why do men want power and control so much more than women?

JHound · 23/12/2025 14:37

Earlier this year a Facebook group called My Wife, 30,000 members, also shut down. Men sharing intimate photo's of their wives and girlfriends without their consent.

I remember ages ago an agony aunt letter in the Guardian about a woman whose husband was angry she had snooped on his phone and found an offensive group chat which included them sharing intimate images of girlfriends / wives without their consent.

The amount of men commenting who had a huge issue with her snooping of his phone but seemingly no issue with the men sharing intimate issues of women without their consent was illuminating.

JHound · 23/12/2025 14:40

theministerscat · 23/12/2025 11:05

Looks like they definitely had a family. Picture from the Swindon Advertiser. This poor woman and his poor bloody kids.

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I was hoping they had none. That’s awful.

Imnobody4 · 23/12/2025 14:53

Psychologists studying the Nazis found no evidence of pathology. All the ordinary people across Europe who participated in mass killings, torture etc once given permission.The behaviour of conquering armies are consistent through time.
Porn is creating a new normal giving permission for the darkest side of men and fracturing a sense what is normal and acceptable. ' Porn is the theory, rape is thr practice'
Those who stand up against it are outliers.

Rednorth · 23/12/2025 15:00

Seethlaw · 23/12/2025 14:08

I never said that sexual assault is just about sexual gratification.

Also: why do men want power and control so much more than women?

Edited

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I cannot reduce the complete history of the rise of men, social conditioning and privileges that span thousands of years into a few paragraphs...

But what I can say is that it's a little bit more involved than just 'testosterone did it' 🙄

Carla786 · 23/12/2025 15:15

Rednorth · 23/12/2025 13:53

Firstly, women also produce testosterone (albeit not at the levels of men).

Whilst T increases libido, its BS to simply blame that hormone for male sexual violence...SA is nearly always about power and control, and rarely just sexual gratification.

Show quote history

Women certainly do, but men's is way more, as you acknowledge.

I always think the binary debate over SA as power vs SA bc of sexual motives misses that a man who commits SA presumably has a twisted, sexuality where either SA is committed due their sexuality being primarily sadistic (ie due to power, but that's inextricably intertwined with sex) or to the 'power' element being intrinsic to the point where it's not even sadistic. As in , in the second case, they're not primarily trying to hurt someone but to satisfy their urges, and their sexuality is so twisted that the fact someone is being assaulted is just not a concern for them, the other person's feelings are probably barely on their radar.
I think maybe it was Louise Perry who argued that if rape were simply about exerting power, men would beat the woman up or do something else rather than SA. You could argue SA is one of the worst ways one can exert power, but I think Perry's point remains that rape must be sexual to some extent or the rapist wouldn't be aroused. I suppose you could counter with war situations where men have been sexually assaulted, probably mainly by heterosexual men, but presumably there's some sexual element there too, probably power-driven.

Carla786 · 23/12/2025 15:17

Rednorth · 23/12/2025 15:00

I cannot reduce the complete history of the rise of men, social conditioning and privileges that span thousands of years into a few paragraphs...

But what I can say is that it's a little bit more involved than just 'testosterone did it' 🙄

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Would you argue men's rise & social conditioning etc was more driven by nurture? Do you think there was an earlier period when they behaved better? I hope so, but then why did it change?

Carla786 · 23/12/2025 15:22

Seethlaw · 23/12/2025 12:16

Thank you for the kind words 💚

No, I wouldn't drug and rape women, but that's because I wouldn't drug and rape anyone, on principle. I do, however, understand where it comes from, and that's very disturbing.

What I mean... Basically: before the testosterone, I saw (with my physical eyes) women as just people. In a way, they were even the "default" people, because men were both more dangerous and more attractive to me. So women were random people, who happened to have different physical attributes than men, but since I was attracted to men, I paid little attention to those attributes. They were just there, like hair or shoes.

Then I took the testo and... let's just say that suddenly those female attributes were like magnets for my eyes. I literally experienced the "her eyes are up there" situation, over and over again. I regularly feel the urge to turn around to check out a woman's behind. Stuff like that. (And obviously, I've come to realise that I'm not as exclusively male-attracted as I thought.)

Now, maybe there's something wrong specifically with me, but I doubt it, judging by how men routinely talk about women, which completely aligns with my experience. And remember: for me, this experience is abnormal, something that changed. For them, it's the only normal they know.

So yes, I think testosterone has a lot to answer for. Note however that I'm not saying it's an excuse for anything, because men repeatedly show that they are perfectly capable of not harrassing a woman when she has a man nearby to "protect" her - so they can and must learn to do it when the woman is alone as well. No excuses.

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This is valuable testimony, thank you for sharing it. I presume you are or were a trans man? I've read similar accounts from others.

Is it OK if I ask something? You say before the T you were only attracted to men. Would you say your sexual attraction to women after the T was then much stronger than your sexual attraction to men before? Ie. Before that, were you as drawn to men's body parts & did you feel the same strong need to check out? I presume no? I'm just trying to compare to your baseline.

Seethlaw · 23/12/2025 15:50

Carla786 · 23/12/2025 15:22

This is valuable testimony, thank you for sharing it. I presume you are or were a trans man? I've read similar accounts from others.

Is it OK if I ask something? You say before the T you were only attracted to men. Would you say your sexual attraction to women after the T was then much stronger than your sexual attraction to men before? Ie. Before that, were you as drawn to men's body parts & did you feel the same strong need to check out? I presume no? I'm just trying to compare to your baseline.

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Yes, I'm a trans man.

Hmm, interesting questions! Definitely, yes, my current attraction to some body parts of women is a lot stronger than my attraction to men's bodies was before. I indeed never felt the same urge to check a man out before. I also can't remember ever feeling annoyed at myself for objectifying someone, male or female. The sexual interest was always there, but it was much more subtle, and not so fixated on body parts.

TheTimeTravellersNiece · 23/12/2025 15:54

JHound · 23/12/2025 09:51

I know it’s a stupid thing to say….but I cannot get over how “regular” he looks.

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I went to a talk last year by an NGO who deal with the rehabilitation of women and girls who've been sex trafficked. When asked if there is a typical profile of the man who uses prostitutes, the answer was 'Absolutely. Middle-aged, middle class, married.'

ScrollingLeaves · 23/12/2025 15:58

ILoveLaLaLand · 23/12/2025 01:29

Porn drove the initial surge of the internet and it has been expanding ever since, corrupting more and more men. Gisele Pelicot said that she believed her husband's behaviour was driven by porn. It teaches men to objectify women and treat them as nothing more than sex toys for men. The fact that millions of men are now regular consumers is terrifying - I would not like to be a young woman in today's world. It's getting worse rather than better.

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It may be that some young women are just so repulsed by the idea of the object their body is representing for men to porn on, that that’s why they opt out, get a mastectomy, and grow a wispy beard.