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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
ByCraftyMaker · 03/12/2025 21:57

“To accept the validity of such a trial is to accept the existence of the transgender child.”

Do these children suddenly become transgender at 18 or do you really think there is no such thing as being transgender?

Sexnotgendah · 03/12/2025 22:32

I believe a person can be described as transgender when they medically transition. I don’t think anyone has “transgender” within them. Do you?

OP posts:
NextRinny · 03/12/2025 22:47

At what age do children "suddenly" become transgender? 2, 6, 13 3/4?

Or maybe there is no such thing as a transgender child and over 18s can be or do whatever they want?

Jollyjoy · 03/12/2025 22:47

ByCraftyMaker · 03/12/2025 21:57

“To accept the validity of such a trial is to accept the existence of the transgender child.”

Do these children suddenly become transgender at 18 or do you really think there is no such thing as being transgender?

It’s a great question. What is ‘being transgender’? For a child or an adult? Genuine question. It seems that throughout time there have been a tiny number of people who believe they are internally the opposite sex - are they transgender because they feel this way? What about a teen girl who is appalled by her body starting to change, doesn’t like men looking at her, hates her breasts, reads about trans online and thinks ‘if I were male I wouldn’t need to deal with this’ - is she transgender? What about as I saw on a thread here today, someone mentioned knowing their boy was a girl when he was preverbal ‘because he pointed at female characters and seemed to identify with them’. Is that baby transgender? And of course what about adult men who like to cross dress and masturbate in womens loos - transgender?

ByCraftyMaker · 03/12/2025 22:48

Sexnotgendah · 03/12/2025 22:32

I believe a person can be described as transgender when they medically transition. I don’t think anyone has “transgender” within them. Do you?

I do. I experienced it myself as a child and it never went away until I transitioned in my early 20s

MarieDeGournay · 03/12/2025 22:50

ByCraftyMaker · 03/12/2025 21:57

“To accept the validity of such a trial is to accept the existence of the transgender child.”

Do these children suddenly become transgender at 18 or do you really think there is no such thing as being transgender?

It doesn't happen suddenly, but it is accepted that children do not have the capacity to make serious or life-changing decisions - e.g. you can't enter into a legal contract until you are 18.

Children under 18 go through many stages and states and may be confused about the gender stereotypes that society forces on boys and girls.

The ideal would be for them to be supported to ignore 'boys have to be like this' and 'girls have to be like that' and not to be told 'if you're a boy who is like that you might be a girl' or 'if you are a girl who is like this you might be a boy'.

It's about giving children and young people the space and freedom to become the adult human female or adult human male they want to be, without feeling that they are in some way 'wrong' and need to transition into something else.

NotBadConsidering · 03/12/2025 22:59

ByCraftyMaker · 03/12/2025 22:48

I do. I experienced it myself as a child and it never went away until I transitioned in my early 20s

You experienced what as a child that made you a “transgender” child? Can you explain without using stereotypes?

BundleBoogie · 03/12/2025 23:09

ByCraftyMaker · 03/12/2025 21:57

“To accept the validity of such a trial is to accept the existence of the transgender child.”

Do these children suddenly become transgender at 18 or do you really think there is no such thing as being transgender?

‘Transgender’ is a potential but unevidenced and often ineffective solution to the contested condition of ‘gender dysphoria’.

There are other treatments or approaches that are far more effective, non invasive and that will not destroy long term health and fertility.

As puberty resolves the vast majority of cases (and physical, cognitive and emotional development doesn’t fully complete until around 25), there should be absolutely no ‘trans’ children. The existence of ‘trans’ adults is more a matter of terminology then science.

HildegardP · 03/12/2025 23:12

Hopefully that's been CC'd to the Board of NIHR with appropriate edits.

Leafstamp · 03/12/2025 23:13

ByCraftyMaker · 03/12/2025 22:48

I do. I experienced it myself as a child and it never went away until I transitioned in my early 20s

What did you transition from and to?

because people can’t change sex.

MarieDeGournay · 03/12/2025 23:23

ByCraftyMaker · 03/12/2025 22:48

I do. I experienced it myself as a child and it never went away until I transitioned in my early 20s

I might have gone down the transgender route too, but fortunately I survived a confused childhood, accepted reality, and grew up to be a gender-non conforming adult female human.

I was lucky - nobody suggested to me that I could 'transition' to something which in fact I could never be, i.e. male, and nobody suggested damaging my body with medication or surgery just because my body is a woman's body.

ByCraftyMaker · 03/12/2025 23:24

BundleBoogie · 03/12/2025 23:09

‘Transgender’ is a potential but unevidenced and often ineffective solution to the contested condition of ‘gender dysphoria’.

There are other treatments or approaches that are far more effective, non invasive and that will not destroy long term health and fertility.

As puberty resolves the vast majority of cases (and physical, cognitive and emotional development doesn’t fully complete until around 25), there should be absolutely no ‘trans’ children. The existence of ‘trans’ adults is more a matter of terminology then science.

Do you have a source for it be ineffective? What other treatment are more effective?

ByCraftyMaker · 03/12/2025 23:27

MarieDeGournay · 03/12/2025 23:23

I might have gone down the transgender route too, but fortunately I survived a confused childhood, accepted reality, and grew up to be a gender-non conforming adult female human.

I was lucky - nobody suggested to me that I could 'transition' to something which in fact I could never be, i.e. male, and nobody suggested damaging my body with medication or surgery just because my body is a woman's body.

I’m glad you didn’t have to go down that route. It’s not easy and I wouldn’t wish it on anybody. I tried for a long time to ignore it and I reached a point where it felt like the only option. I know it doesn’t work for everyone, but my experience has been incredibly position. I’ve managed to build a life and friendships that wouldn’t have been possible if I didn’t transition.

NotBadConsidering · 03/12/2025 23:28

tried for a long time to ignore it

What is “it”? What were you trying to ignore?

ByCraftyMaker · 03/12/2025 23:30

NotBadConsidering · 03/12/2025 23:28

tried for a long time to ignore it

What is “it”? What were you trying to ignore?

Gender dysphoria. The strong feeling I should’ve been born female and distress from my male body.

NotBadConsidering · 03/12/2025 23:39

ByCraftyMaker · 03/12/2025 23:30

Gender dysphoria. The strong feeling I should’ve been born female and distress from my male body.

Edited

So the DSM 5 criteria for gender dysphoria for children is defined by stereotypes. So how are you defining gender dysphoria?

What was that to you?

ByCraftyMaker · 03/12/2025 23:51

NotBadConsidering · 03/12/2025 23:39

So the DSM 5 criteria for gender dysphoria for children is defined by stereotypes. So how are you defining gender dysphoria?

What was that to you?

For me, it was distress in knowing that I’d eventually start to develop harsher features, facial hair and that my voice would deepen instead of female secondary characteristic. There was also a social element about not being able to develop deeper friendships with women

birdtoast · 04/12/2025 00:01

If by "transgender" people mean someone who is internally the opposite sex to their biological sex then I absolutely do not believe that is possible. I do think people can have issues with their identity, sexuality and feel deeply unhappy in themselves and that some of them imagine they are the opposite sex and wish to look like and live as the opposite sex. However they are not born in the wrong body nor do they have a female brain or soul in a male body.

Children should not be given these drugs for this reason, it is not medically necessary or appropriate and the trial is highly problematic. If an adult wishes to alter their body then that is up to them, it still doesn't make them the opposite sex and they should by that point be aware that legally they will always be their biological sex.

EmilyinEverton · 04/12/2025 00:25

MarieDeGournay · 03/12/2025 22:50

It doesn't happen suddenly, but it is accepted that children do not have the capacity to make serious or life-changing decisions - e.g. you can't enter into a legal contract until you are 18.

Children under 18 go through many stages and states and may be confused about the gender stereotypes that society forces on boys and girls.

The ideal would be for them to be supported to ignore 'boys have to be like this' and 'girls have to be like that' and not to be told 'if you're a boy who is like that you might be a girl' or 'if you are a girl who is like this you might be a boy'.

It's about giving children and young people the space and freedom to become the adult human female or adult human male they want to be, without feeling that they are in some way 'wrong' and need to transition into something else.

It's about giving children and young people the space and freedom to become the adult human female or adult human male they want to be, without feeling that they are in some way 'wrong' and need to transition into something else.

But all the while denying them the space & freedom to live as they want to be should it be otherwise without feeling that they are in some way 'wrong' & need to repress their inclinations into who they are not. Puberty isn't a neutral act but a zero sum gain.

The misunderstanding here is the assumption that the default setting is the correct one that's only a matter of psychological 'acceptance'…..the logic that underpins conversion therapy & its indisputable ineffectual damaging consequences.

SternJoyousBeev2 · 04/12/2025 00:25

ByCraftyMaker · 03/12/2025 23:30

Gender dysphoria. The strong feeling I should’ve been born female and distress from my male body.

Edited

So do you have to have gender dysphoria to be transgender?

ByCraftyMaker · 04/12/2025 00:35

SternJoyousBeev2 · 04/12/2025 00:25

So do you have to have gender dysphoria to be transgender?

I know it’s not a fashionable view in the trans community, but yes I do believe it’s a requirement

NotBadConsidering · 04/12/2025 00:43

ByCraftyMaker · 03/12/2025 23:51

For me, it was distress in knowing that I’d eventually start to develop harsher features, facial hair and that my voice would deepen instead of female secondary characteristic. There was also a social element about not being able to develop deeper friendships with women

So how is this different to a body dysmorphia, and why is the treatment for this body dysmorphia to alter the body, in opposite to the treatment for other body dysmorphias?

And why does a male child need to alter his body in order to have good friendships with women and girls?

SternJoyousBeev2 · 04/12/2025 00:49

ByCraftyMaker · 04/12/2025 00:35

I know it’s not a fashionable view in the trans community, but yes I do believe it’s a requirement

And you acknowledge that many in the so called trans community claim that gender dysphoria is not a requirement

Do you think that talking therapies equals conversion therapy? Or do you believe that total affirmation is not helpful for young (and older) people?

ByCraftyMaker · 04/12/2025 00:59

NotBadConsidering · 04/12/2025 00:43

So how is this different to a body dysmorphia, and why is the treatment for this body dysmorphia to alter the body, in opposite to the treatment for other body dysmorphias?

And why does a male child need to alter his body in order to have good friendships with women and girls?

Gender dysphoria and body dysmorphia are separate issues. Dysmorphia is distress about a perceived flaw, and dysphoria is distress about the sexed body and internal sense of self. People will dysphoria are able to accurately perceive their body.

Dysmorphia doesn’t get better when the person changes their body, but gender dysphoria goes get better with transition.

ByCraftyMaker · 04/12/2025 01:03

SternJoyousBeev2 · 04/12/2025 00:49

And you acknowledge that many in the so called trans community claim that gender dysphoria is not a requirement

Do you think that talking therapies equals conversion therapy? Or do you believe that total affirmation is not helpful for young (and older) people?

I think neutral talking therapy to help someone explore their feelings is a good thing. But if the goal of that therapy is to convince someone they’re not trans, that would be conversion therapy.