Open Letter to Dr Hilary Cass

[Sexnotgendah]

Cass did great work but this puberty blocker trial is a huge mistake
https://genspect.org/an-open-letter-from-genspect-to-dr-hilary-cass/

Men who use women spaces, but claim stereotyping is detrimental, are asserting a contradiction.

Women's spaces are for women.

They are not to be repurposed for the service or comfort of men.

That is gender stereotyping. That women are support humans and their spaces should play a role in helping men.

Sexism is so insidious. People will agree it's wrong, while demanding people observe it.

Well said.

It is unconscionable that this proposed study wishes to irrevocably harm a fresh cohort of children instead of examining the existing patients they started medicating 10 years ago or trying to contact detransitioners. They would provide a mountain of invaluable data.

I think the problem with this is that you are assuming that 'they accurately perceive their characteristics to be opposite to their identity.' is not a distortion in the case of transgender people.
.
I understand that you believe that the 'inner sense' telling a biological male that their identity is female is valid, accurate and not a distortion.

Millions disagree - identifying as something which is at odds with your biological reality is seen by probably most people as a distorted perception.

I really don't see the the difference between believing that one's body should not have legs, and that one's body should not have male genitalia.

Both are so deeply held by some people that they will undergo surgery to remove healthy but unwanted parts of their bodies. I don't think you can make a distinction between the person who wants to change their body so they have no legs, because they have an inner sense that they should be a wheelchair user, and the person who wants to change their body so they have no penis because they have an inner sense that they should not be a penis-haver.

Why do you think you or anyone is entitled to history? I’ve built friendships as how I’m seen now. Isn’t that more important? If people can always tell that means they’ve decided they want me as a friend regardless

With regards "tricking passers by" there are two ways of looking at it, and I am honestly not sure which one I think more than the other.

(1) It is utterly pointless and relatively harmless. Carry on.

(2) It is inherently anti-social and using the law and / or shaming we need to try to get people to stop doing it.

But the point I was trying to make was not about whether or not you should or should not do it, the point was about how anyone with decent mental health gets ZERO benefit from tricking strangers who don't really care who / what you are. My point is that by definition "passing" involves pointless trickery of people who mean nothing to you and vice versa, or it means rendering an otherwise close relationship as utterly meaningles as it is built on a lie.

Really? Oh dear. I had formed an opinion of Crafty as someone who was being 'an honest broker' in these discussions, thoughtful and measured, I even hoped that Crafty was reasonable and honourable enough to respect women's spaces..

Say it ain't so, Crafty!😞

You literally said this:* *

There was also a social element about not being able to develop deeper friendships with women

How is anyone supposed to work out that in reality you meant young girls? We’re not mind readers you know.

And now you are being rude and borderline aggressive because we took you at your word. Remind me how these ‘deep friendships’ with women are going again?

AND if you (crafty) are not truthful then what you see as a "deeper relationship with women" is nothing more than 100% dishonest relationships with women, and if the relationship is dishonest it has no value.

And it's no better if the main deception is the transgender person's self-deception that they are "going stealth".

Well obviously if they know you are male (which I’m guessing they do) and have decided to be your friend anyway, that’s fine. It would seem to be a rather large elephant to leave in the room and implies that it is a rather superficial friendship. My oldest female friends know pretty much everything about me as we have deeply rooted common experiences.

But you didn’t answer my earlier question about whether it not they knew so I made the point that the fact you are male is a fundamental part of your existence and successfully concealing that in some circumstances is a crime. Honesty is important in friendships.

You unchanging biological sex - whether you are a man or a woman - is not your history it is your past, present and future and will stay with you for hundreds of thousands of years if you are buried in suitable conditions for slow decay

I’m not saying you’re mind readers. I replied to a different poster further down in the thread explaining what I meant by that.

Personally, I've found that when I have considered a heterosexual male a friend, it usualy turns out there is also an under-lying sexual tension or attraction which complicates matters. My best male friends have tended to be gay because those relationships don't have any of that.

Why would be you upset if you discovered a friend of yours was trans? Would you treat them differently because of it?

That’s great and if what you say is accurate and you always knew and know what your sex is then you know that you should not be in any female single sex space irrespective of any outward changes you have made to your body.

If Transwomen with gender dysphoria acknowledge that they remain male and respect women’s rights to single sex spaces we would all be better off.

Oh come on, crafty, this is typical TRA double talk. We've had it up to here. We see it all the time

Do you mean if they discovered that a friend they thought was female turned out to be male (or vice versa)?

Or do you mean if a friend (whose sex they were aware of) disclosed that they had a trans identity?

It is not history. It is present. You are a man and you know this.

So either you friends don't know, in which case you are deceiving them. How can you trust that they won't be angry with the deception?

Or they do know and they are pretending aswell. And if they are pretending about that, how can you trust them to be honest with you about anything?

It's not good either way.

I wouldn't be upset that they were 'trans'. I would be upset that they lied and would no longer trust them.

Crafty, Are you going to answer this?

Here's the answer to your question @Datun.

Aren't you the poster who told us you don't think it's necessary to advertise your male sex on threads you partake in where women are sharing sexual trauma? 🤔

God, the wheedling.

You can't answer questions straight, you deliberately conceal salient facts, you are trying to make an argument for deliberately misleading people.

Of course if someone who said they were a woman and it turned out he was a man I'd treat him differently, ffs! He'd be revealed as a liar, for starters.

Just be honest. Nobody wants to be pals with a liar.

That’s because you believe trans women are men and are deceitful. Someone who doesn’t share your belief might come to difficult conclusion in that situation.

What is a 'transwoman'?