Open Letter to Dr Hilary Cass

[Sexnotgendah]

Cass did great work but this puberty blocker trial is a huge mistake
https://genspect.org/an-open-letter-from-genspect-to-dr-hilary-cass/

I suspect that for some women developing a friendship with a gay man or with. a man who identifies as a woman is somehow easier or preferable to developing a friendship with a straight heterosexual man.It is felt that gay men or trans identified men are somehow more attuned with female interests and sensitivities than other men.

I never said it was. I was specifically talking about my experience with dysphoria at an age where it seemed like boys and only be friend with boys and girls can only be friends girls. As I got older that changed and I had good friendships with women, but feeling that my body developed the wrong way never went away.

So your 'gender dysphoria' is wholly about a dislike of your body?

How is it different to BIID, which is also about dislike of certain parts of the body?

What age was that?

I don’t remember any age when it wasn’t perfectly acceptable to have opposite sex friendships.

I also have never experienced a desire to target friendships in any particular group - I just meet people, and if we get on and have things in common we become friends.

What were you seeking when you specifically wanted deeper friendships with women?

And @ByCraftyMaker if, as reported, you form these friendships while concealing a significant aspect about yourself like your sex, how are these friendships remotely genuine or ‘deep’?

I was specifically talking about my experience with dysphoria at an age where it seemed like boys and only be friend with boys and girls can only be friends girls. As I got older that changed and I had good friendships with women, but feeling that my body developed the wrong way never went away

Do you think you are any more able to develop deeper friendships with women now? I presume you don’t tell them you are a woman as such a huge deception is not conducive to friendship?
It has been easier post-transition. I have a few good friends that I’m very close with now. I’ve spoke to some friends about my history and it’s not come up for others. It’s not the same for everyone, but being trans isn’t a huge part of my identity. I see it more as how I got to who I am now.

It is all body dysmorphia. Men who want to be women (and who are not paraphiliacs) see their body as flawed because it is male not female.

Here are the archive links to those articles:
Times

And they are accurately perceiving their body when they say it is male. Someone with dysmorphia has a perceived flaw that isn’t there. That is what makes dysphoria different. I will admit they are similar on a surface level, but so are a lot of conditions. It doesn’t mean we treat all conditions with similarities the same.

They are genuine through shared interests and values. Do you share your full medical history with all your friends? Does someone who is gay not have a genuine friendship or commit a deception if they don’t tell a friend?

Someone with Body Integrity Identity Disorder (BIID) who wants a leg removed because they want to be disabled doesn't have a perceived flaw that isn't there. They know there's nothing wrong with their limbs, they just want them gone.

How is BIID different from gender dysphoria other than that the body part(s) focused on are different?

The Atlantic piece that I linked to earlier mentioned the similarity between the two conditions.

Concealing the fact that you're male from a female with whom you want a friendship is absolutely the height of deception!

And if you subsequently have a sexual relationship with her, it's a crime.

Why do you think has it been easier post transition?

but being trans isn’t a huge part of my identity.

Being male is a significant fact about you that is very relevant to others.

The sex of people you are friends with is very important to you, can you recognise that it would be important to others? If your friends don’t know you are male, how do you think they would feel to find out?

Or do you feel like your female friends know you are male but haven’t said anything?

How would you feel if a 'woman' you had made friends with turned out to be male (another 'transwoman' just like you)? Would it bother you? Would you feel deceived?

And they can cheerlead me for it.

ByCraftyMaker I’ve spoke to some friends about my history and it’s not come up for others. It’s not the same for everyone, but being trans isn’t a huge part of my identity. I see it more as how I got to who I am now.

Don't you see it as problematic that 'who you are now' is a man who presents as a woman, but you don't think it's all that important in forming friendships, it's not a huge part of your identity?

Leaving aside the issue of interpersonal relationships, it's pretty important on a practical and legal level: for instance, you do not have the right to use facilities that are designated for women.

An 'internal sense' that you are a woman doesn't count, 'sex'=biological sex, which can't be changed.

A good friend to women and a responsible human being - which you seem to be, I appreciate the way you have interacted in this discussion - would respect the specificity of life as a biological female, and would, for instance, stay out of single-sex spaces that are designated for biological females only.

You may do that already, I would like to think that you do, but you will admit that a whole, noisy, occasionally violent social movement has grown up around men who have the internal sense that they are women co-opting women's experience and identities, and refusing to stay out of women's spaces.

That's huge.

And in answer to one of your points: yes, if I was developing a friendship with anyone, male or female, the fact that I am a lesbian is an important aspect of who I am - not my 'medical history' as you bizarrely call your identity - and it wouldn't be much of a friendship if that aspect of me somehow just didn't come up in conversation....

I wouldn’t care. I became friends with them because I liked them as a person and not because of their sex.

But you just said one of the reasons you transitioned was to make friends with people precisely because of their sex!

I am trying to think this through... is my logic sound?

Someone who thinks they should be legless and wheelchair bound has a perceived flaw (the existence of legs) which isn't there. As they do have legs the flaw we are talking about is not the flaw of having legs (which is of course not a flaw at all), it must be that they incorrectly perceive the existence of legs as a flaw.

Similarly someone who thinks they should be a woman when they are a man has a perceived flaw (their unchangeable biological sex) which isn't there. As having an unchangeable biological sex is not a flaw (if it were every human being would be flawed in this regard) then the flaw we are talking about is not the flaw of being male, it must be that they incorrectly perceive their unchangeable sex as the flaw.

It seems to me that the two things are practically identical.

I didn’t say that. I said that was one of reasons I felt dysphoric as a young child, but that feeling went away when I got older and developed friendships with women (before I transitioned).

Every single human being on planet earth treats people differently because of their sex, all the time. Knowing the approximate size, shape, age, sex and fitness of someone is absolutely fundamental to every interaction we have. THis is because we are hardwired to recognize threats (to a health, wellbeing and lives) and opportunities (to procreate, for most of us).

Every single time you trick someone into thinking you are the sex you are not (and I suspect this happens rarely) then what you have done is either (1) pointlessly trick a stranger or pass-by or someone with whom you have a very superficial, intermittant relationship (eg the barista you see once a week), or (2) rendered a meaningful relationship with a friend utterly meaningless by having it built on a lie (to be fair to you it is perfectly possible that you have never ever done this, even if you think you have.)

No, the issue here is distorted perception. Someone with dysmorphia isn’t able to objectively see that their perceived flaw isn’t real. Someone with dysphoria believes their body should’ve developed male or female characteristics and they have this distress because they accurately perceive their characteristics to be opposite to their identity. It’s the same in BIID they believe they shouldn’t have a leg, but they know they have a leg. Someone with dysmorphia doesn’t know that their perceived flaw isn’t real

You said

For me, it was distress in knowing that I’d eventually start to develop harsher features, facial hair and that my voice would deepen instead of female secondary characteristic. There was also a social element about not being able to develop deeper friendships with women

You transitioned in order to develop friendships with women. Because, for some reason, you felt that you couldn't have a social relationship with them if they knew your sex.

then what you have done is either (1) pointlessly trick a stranger or pass-by or someone with whom you have a very superficial, intermittant relationship (eg the barista you see once a week)
Do I have to carry a sign so every stranger knows I’m not really a woman? In practice, what would you like me to do in casual day-to-day situations?