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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
ProfessorBettyBooper · 04/12/2025 14:04

ByCraftyMaker · 04/12/2025 14:01

That’s because you believe trans women are men and are deceitful. Someone who doesn’t share your belief might come to difficult conclusion in that situation.

Transwomen are men and if they manage to pass convincingly and lie about it, they are deceitful.

And anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you.

Datun · 04/12/2025 14:12

OldCrone · 04/12/2025 13:48

Here's the answer to your question @Datun.

Yes, I was just wondering if crafty would have the balls to admit it.

A couple of people seem to be under the impression that you can get decent, honest transactivists.

In my opinion, it's a contradiction in terms.

ByCraftyMaker · 04/12/2025 14:13

ProfessorBettyBooper · 04/12/2025 14:04

Transwomen are men and if they manage to pass convincingly and lie about it, they are deceitful.

And anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you.

That is your belief. A lot of people don’t share it. To you it’s deceitful, and to other it’s living authentically

ArabellaSaurus · 04/12/2025 14:16

ByCraftyMaker · 04/12/2025 14:13

That is your belief. A lot of people don’t share it. To you it’s deceitful, and to other it’s living authentically

What is a transwoman?

Datun · 04/12/2025 14:16

ByCraftyMaker · 04/12/2025 14:13

That is your belief. A lot of people don’t share it. To you it’s deceitful, and to other it’s living authentically

It's just TRA gibberish. Nothing is authentic, if you have to use words and concepts like stealth, passing and breaching of equality law.

ProfessorBettyBooper · 04/12/2025 14:24

ByCraftyMaker · 04/12/2025 14:13

That is your belief. A lot of people don’t share it. To you it’s deceitful, and to other it’s living authentically

You're a man. If you manage to convince those around you that you are (and have always been) female then that is a lie.

That's not my 'belief', it's a fact.

Nothing 'authentic' about it.

JamieCannister · 04/12/2025 14:25

ByCraftyMaker · 04/12/2025 13:40

Why would be you upset if you discovered a friend of yours was trans? Would you treat them differently because of it?

(1) I would be upset that someone I thought was a friend had hidden something absolutely fundamental about themselves. This would be a deal breaker. A man who enters women's spaces would be a deal breaker.

(2) Men and women are different, and I am attracted to women and not men, so yes, of course, for two massive reasons I treat men and women differently.

(3) I would not wish to be friends with a predator or an autogynephile. I would not wish to be friends with someone who expected me to treat them as anything other than their birth sex.

The whole concept of their being a group which is called "trans" is pretty nonsensical in many ways. It is better to treat anyone who calls themselves trans as an individual based on the way they dress (not good if they have their d*ck showing whilst wearing a miniskirt!), what they demand, the spaces they use, what they claim to be, their other mental health co-morbidities.

JamieCannister · 04/12/2025 14:31

ByCraftyMaker · 04/12/2025 14:13

That is your belief. A lot of people don’t share it. To you it’s deceitful, and to other it’s living authentically

"of undisputed origin and not a copy; genuine."

DialSquare · 04/12/2025 14:43

ByCraftyMaker · 04/12/2025 14:13

That is your belief. A lot of people don’t share it. To you it’s deceitful, and to other it’s living authentically

This is my authentic horse.

Open Letter to Dr Hilary Cass
Boiledbeetle · 04/12/2025 14:55

ByCraftyMaker · 04/12/2025 13:21

Why do you think you or anyone is entitled to history? I’ve built friendships as how I’m seen now. Isn’t that more important? If people can always tell that means they’ve decided they want me as a friend regardless

Lets assume the women who are your friends don't know you are male. And you never tell them. Yes you can have friendships and they may be great and fulfilling and gives YOU the deeper friendships with women you desire.

Truly good friendships though are built on truth, mutual trust and understanding. Yours are all built on a lie, or if you prefer an omission.

Now let's assume your women friends do know you are a man. You pretend to them you're a woman. They pretend to you you're a woman. How can anyone in that situation have anything but a superficial friendship? There's no trust there. There's just people ignoring the bloody elephant in the room.

ProfessorBettyBooper · 04/12/2025 15:02

Boiledbeetle · 04/12/2025 14:55

Lets assume the women who are your friends don't know you are male. And you never tell them. Yes you can have friendships and they may be great and fulfilling and gives YOU the deeper friendships with women you desire.

Truly good friendships though are built on truth, mutual trust and understanding. Yours are all built on a lie, or if you prefer an omission.

Now let's assume your women friends do know you are a man. You pretend to them you're a woman. They pretend to you you're a woman. How can anyone in that situation have anything but a superficial friendship? There's no trust there. There's just people ignoring the bloody elephant in the room.

And the alternative -

Just be honest about it. Build relationships based on trust. Stay out of women's spaces and demanding everyone play pretend.

And we can all move on.

HeadyLamarr · 04/12/2025 15:09

The misunderstanding here is the assumption that the default setting is the correct one that's only a matter of psychological 'acceptance

This post by @EmilyinEverton sticks on my craw. Misunderstanding, my Aunt Fanny.

The 'default setting' is material bloody reality. Male or female from conception and never able to change because sex in human beings is immutable.

If someone thinks they 'ought to be' what they patently are not, they need help coming to accept themselves. Else they will live a life of mental distress from screaming pointlessly into the void trying to change reality.

HeadyLamarr · 04/12/2025 15:13

ByCraftyMaker · 04/12/2025 14:13

That is your belief. A lot of people don’t share it. To you it’s deceitful, and to other it’s living authentically

If you are lying to others about what you are, there's nothing authentic about you.

JamieCannister · 04/12/2025 15:13

HeadyLamarr · 04/12/2025 15:09

The misunderstanding here is the assumption that the default setting is the correct one that's only a matter of psychological 'acceptance

This post by @EmilyinEverton sticks on my craw. Misunderstanding, my Aunt Fanny.

The 'default setting' is material bloody reality. Male or female from conception and never able to change because sex in human beings is immutable.

If someone thinks they 'ought to be' what they patently are not, they need help coming to accept themselves. Else they will live a life of mental distress from screaming pointlessly into the void trying to change reality.

Furthermore, the evidence suggests that those who think they 'ought to be' what they patently are not often have other mental health co-morbidities. It seems to me that by focussing on transition they are very often ignoring other MH co-morbidities, which allows their MH to deteriorate further. If they do seek MH support for the MH co-morbidities then one wonders whether talking therapies can be effective if the therapist is unable to be fully honest with the patient.

HeadyLamarr · 04/12/2025 15:19

JamieCannister · 04/12/2025 15:13

Furthermore, the evidence suggests that those who think they 'ought to be' what they patently are not often have other mental health co-morbidities. It seems to me that by focussing on transition they are very often ignoring other MH co-morbidities, which allows their MH to deteriorate further. If they do seek MH support for the MH co-morbidities then one wonders whether talking therapies can be effective if the therapist is unable to be fully honest with the patient.

Hannah Barnes's book was so worrying about this - the so called Dutch protocol screened out all those with co-morbidities and unstable home lives. That's the polar opposite of the cohort the Tavistock was treating with the same thoroughly irresponsible pathway. And they offered regular counselling sessions rather than a couple of quick meetings and straight onto irrevocably harmful drugs.

We all owe a debt to those who dug deep to expose what was really happening. I hope one day there will be serious consequences for the people who put vulnerable young children in such harm's way.

JamieCannister · 04/12/2025 15:23

HeadyLamarr · 04/12/2025 15:13

If you are lying to others about what you are, there's nothing authentic about you.

Authenticity is something that fascinates me, though I admit what really gets me interested is the concept of authenticity in the arts (especially in music).

When talking about authenticity one can mean almost anything.

If you were brought up by a stay at home mum and a bricklayer father is it "authentic" to your upbringing to choose to work in the building trade and have a traditional family set-up? What if you're really good at school and love philosophy - is it inauthentic to go to Oxford, or is it inauthentic to settle for the building trade like your dad?

It seems to me that truth and honesty are the important things, and "authenticity" is much more about how others perceive you as opposed to anything that can be pinned down.

It seems to me that people who self describe as living authentically tend to be people who claim that their self perception matches their feelings (eg, "I am a man and I feel like a woman - by putting on a dress I am living authentically").

In my view "I am a man and I want to wear a dress" is the attitude of someone who is infinitely closer to meeting the definition of authenticity.

BundleBoogie · 04/12/2025 15:24

ByCraftyMaker · 04/12/2025 13:40

Why would be you upset if you discovered a friend of yours was trans? Would you treat them differently because of it?

Do you believe in honesty in friendships? I do. By ‘trans’ you mean ‘the opposite sex to that being presented’. In your case male. Yes I would be very much upset if I found that a friend had lied about something so fundamentally basic about themselves. That’s how friendships tend to operate. Honesty.

One of the main reasons you said you were trans is because you wanted to be friends with the opposite sex. If you made friends with someone you thought was the opposite sex to their actual sex, why would you not be disappointed? It was a major factor in your life changing decision.

alwayseatingnevermoving · 04/12/2025 15:26

I think the thing that really gets my back up with the “trans” movement is why is everything they do to change themselves based on looks? Facial feminisation surgery, boob jobs, hair extensions etc etc.

Why is my femininity suddenly decided by how I look? Why is that what makes us women? It really unsettles me

BundleBoogie · 04/12/2025 15:28

ByCraftyMaker · 04/12/2025 14:01

That’s because you believe trans women are men and are deceitful. Someone who doesn’t share your belief might come to difficult conclusion in that situation.

It’s not a belief. ‘Trans women’ ARE men. People who deceive about their sex are deceitful.

Seethlaw · 04/12/2025 15:39

alwayseatingnevermoving · 04/12/2025 15:26

I think the thing that really gets my back up with the “trans” movement is why is everything they do to change themselves based on looks? Facial feminisation surgery, boob jobs, hair extensions etc etc.

Why is my femininity suddenly decided by how I look? Why is that what makes us women? It really unsettles me

I can't and won't talk for other trans people, but in my case, it's nothing to do with "you", ie. with other people. It's strictly about myself, about looking like a more male version of me. I don't consider anybody else's femininity or masculinity, at all.

alwayseatingnevermoving · 04/12/2025 15:44

Seethlaw · 04/12/2025 15:39

I can't and won't talk for other trans people, but in my case, it's nothing to do with "you", ie. with other people. It's strictly about myself, about looking like a more male version of me. I don't consider anybody else's femininity or masculinity, at all.

But whether you consider it or not, you’re leaning into (often very patriarchal) stereotypes.

Seethlaw · 04/12/2025 15:50

alwayseatingnevermoving · 04/12/2025 15:44

But whether you consider it or not, you’re leaning into (often very patriarchal) stereotypes.

How so? I honestly don't care what other people look like, and I don't think that what someone looks like has any impact on their femininity or masculinity.

alwayseatingnevermoving · 04/12/2025 15:51

Seethlaw · 04/12/2025 15:50

How so? I honestly don't care what other people look like, and I don't think that what someone looks like has any impact on their femininity or masculinity.

Yet you said you want to look “more male”, so you must do?

Seethlaw · 04/12/2025 15:57

alwayseatingnevermoving · 04/12/2025 15:51

Yet you said you want to look “more male”, so you must do?

No? I enjoy the look and feel of myself with a beard and without breasts, but that doesn't mean that I think a man without a beard or with moobs is less of a man, or that a woman with no breasts or with facial hair is less of a woman.

alwayseatingnevermoving · 04/12/2025 16:00

Seethlaw · 04/12/2025 15:57

No? I enjoy the look and feel of myself with a beard and without breasts, but that doesn't mean that I think a man without a beard or with moobs is less of a man, or that a woman with no breasts or with facial hair is less of a woman.

Then your statements are directly contradicting each other. You can’t say you think you look “more male” with those features without also believing that those features are what define masculinity? If you truly believed you were a man, surely it wouldn’t matter what you looked like on the outside? You are a man so no matter how you look, you’re a male?

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