Man who transitioned to female sues expert for discrimination after being told breastfeeding was delusional

[IwantToRetire]

A transgender mother who underwent medical treatment to breastfeed her newborn son is suing a breastfeeding expert who publicly dismissed her experience as a 'delusional queer theory take'.

Former Australian Breastfeeding Association volunteer counsellor Jasmine Sussex will face a Queensland tribunal next year over claims she discriminated against Brisbane transgender woman Jennifer Adrian Buckley.

The tribunal will decide if Ms Buckley was discriminated against under the Queensland Anti-Discrimination Act over a series of social media posts by Ms Sussex.

Article continues at https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15274697/Jennifer-Buckley-Jasmine-Sussex-transgender-breastfeeding.html

NB Use of propouns at those in the article. So any complaints should go straight to the DM!

Well said. And these particular pervs are targeting babies - the youngest and most vulnerable in society with no ability to protect themselves.

Long overdue for men with this fetish to be removed from having any access to babies or children - ever.

"they are not all pervs"

I am sure that not all male people who have transgender identities are pervs. Perhaps @SoftBalletShoes can also tell us how we can tell which male people who demand to feed infants untested secretions from their own breast when there are very well established safe options available?

Would it be the many that we have seen describe themselves as having electric charges at infants sucking on their breast? Is it the ones who celebrate 'cow achievement'? Is it the ones who are 'excited' by experience? Is it the ones who are grandfathers of that the children that they are feeding, not even the father?

How do we tell which ones are pervs and which ones are not pervs?

At least you seem to acknowledge that some male people with transgender identities are pervs, though. That is a start.

I’m a former bf counsellor (not councillor as the mail says) and this is just outrageous. All this ridiculous man has achieved is ensuring many Aussie women are not going to be able to access the support they need.

As for the endocrinologist with the PhD in breastfeeding- should be struck off.

Breastfeeding is ALL about what is best for the child and best for the mother. Not what the deluded father wants. Appalling.

It is always women left trying to slide a piece of paper between different types of men in their spaces and grabbing their lives to skin walk around in them, and exerting enormous amounts of effort and attempts to see inside a man's head which really is a ridiculous waste of everyone's time.

How do we separate in the women's loos for example: (None of these sadly are exaggerated, you can find evidence provided online by these men celebrating and sharing these experiences with other men)

The ones getting off on wanking in a cubicle with the door open
The one with the sword enjoy enacting fantasies of murdering women who defy him and seeing their fear
The ones wanting to raid the sanpro bin and stuff tampons up their anuses for sexual excitement
The ones who get off on hearing women pee and opening sanpro
The ones taking selfies of themselves among women in a women's space, excitedly sharing their hope of see their fantasy of little girls walking around naked with their tampon strings dangling, or being asked by a girl to help them insert a tampon <I'll pause here briefly to take a deep breath and take a bath in bleach>
The ones who claim to be afraid to use men's facilities (but don't care about inflicting men on women)
The ones who are proudly exercising their Right To Be Me and strutting their stuff with no fucks to give about the women they exclude and harm (and readjusting their balls in the queue)

How are you going to work through this lot and figure out the individual psychology, who you're going to sympathise with, who might have a valid reason (although to let them into a women's space you have to throw women out and leave them with no alternative provisions because give them anything at all and another large group of those men and their quite worryingly sexist and batshit women supporters will scream, howl, bang their heads on the floor metaphorically speaking and carry on like a sugarhigh toddler)

Most importantly why the fuck is any woman providing the headspace, labour and time to try and dig through all this shit? It only benefits men, and at the expense of women and of sanity.

And that's only loos. Move it to infants and men who wish to have a helpless child suck their nipple and it's many, many, many times worse. The last elephant in the room here is the frantic desperation to insist its not about sexual excitement or at least not all of the men involved are doing this because of sexual excitement in some way or in some level. It's very naive sadly. The evidence is everywhere.

Sanity come back. We need you. The days of everyone having actual healthy boundaries and a grip.

@OpheliaWitchoftheWoods Where on earth are you hanging out online to come across such filth?! This does not represent most transpeople.

Where on earth are you hanging out on FWR to have missed this filth? It's everywhere. I'm afraid to claim its a fringe minority thing is a very forlorn safety blanket. Have you noticed how many leading TiM voices over the years have ended up with sex offense convictions or job losses?

And I'll tell you now, in years of standing up for and working for women's rights to have spaces away from these men and this filth, using your word, I have never once, ever run across any man with a trans identity, or a trans group of any kind, divorcing themselves from this, disowning it or saying 'this is not a part of being trans'.

But the point is, when a man walks into a woman's space, there is no way for her to tell if he is one of the ones you would approve of or one of the ones you wouldn't, and no way to say yes to one and no to another. And it's not the woman's problem anyway. The answer is that men must stay out of women's spaces, and the law must keep them out as apparently they are incapable and unwilling to permit women the respect and equality of single sex spaces, and these are exactly the reasons that lines need to be equally firmly drawn with anything at all involving children.

I've never seen any group of trans identified men supporting that either.

And how do you know which male people with transgender identities Ophelia has described or not?

I haven’t read her post all that closely but Ophelia probably has documented examples of all or most of what was described. Would you like to address those incidents? Would you even acknowledge that there will be no symmetrical female people acting this way?

That is the entire point here though.

Robust Safeguarding principles for male people feeding secretions to infants should be in place. Yet there are none. Yet you support it and tell those pointing out the significant boundary violations that they are hateful and prejudiced.

Male creep is CORRECTLY told that his baby sucking his tits isn't good for the baby because men can't breast feed and his fantasy of breastfeeding can't be anything more than that because it's fucked up and isn't in the best interests of the child because they are being starved and used a prop for a gender fantasy inappropriately.

So the man sues the woman safeguarding the baby.

Remind me again, which British broadcaster which is currently swearing blind that it's not institutional biased, ran a story about breastfeeding males last February which led to a shit load of complaints - which were upheld - over misleading and poor standards in journalism.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13553033/BBC-News-report-misleading-trans-womens-milk.html

Men suing over being told they can't breastfeed is the result of all this 'pregnant people' nonsense and anti-scientific nonsense that's being peddled rather than say 'no, it doesn't matter how you identify it still doesn't change your fucking sex and whether you have the physical capacity to do certain things, and no it's not discriminatory to tell you this'.

I am so sick of this pandering shite.

If males who cant breast feed just got off the pot and admitted they can't breastfeed and it's not in the best interests of their baby and it's not for their baby to validate their trans identity, then we wouldn't have a problem.

This is not hate.

This is reality.

The reality is we should safeguard babies from being male identity props and ensure they are fed appropriately and aren't forced to suck the nipples of males for no gain to themselves and only for the adult male. They are not Dollys to be played with. They are humans who should be taught there is a sexual boundary here.

Why is a man referred to in the article as a "mother"? Whatever he may or may not call himself, he is nobody's mother.

Having another look at Ophelia's list, I think we could probably find an example of nearly all of those incidents mentioned. And many of those examples have been self-published on social media.

Then there are the male people with transgender identities that are also 'babies and little girls in diapers', there are the male people with transgender identities that are into publishing images of themselves in BDSM gear yet hold senior positions in Girl Guides or the like.

There are male influencers who joke about listening to female toilet sounds on twitter, knowing that in doing so they are directly intimidating the female people who have stated that those male influencers are not welcome in female single sex spaces.

The list just goes on and on.

What is NOT a long list, is comparable lists of female people doing the same thing and self publishing about the incident.

Again, how is it that infants are not being safeguarded?

And again, what is the benefit to the infant to being fed an untested secretion from a male person when fully tested and safe options are available? @SoftBalletShoes @NumbersGuy

It’s utterly sickening. I know we’re supposed to applaud and dab our misty eyes at this “medical marvel “ but he makes me want to vomit.

"Anyway, it looks like he/she couldn't produce enough, so it's a moot point."

Another sign that you have not even bothered to read the links or read the thread.

NO MALE PERSON CAN PRODUCE ENOUGH!

After three months of treatment, this increased to 227 grams of breast milk per day. Once the baby was born, she was able to exclusively breastfeed the infant for six weeks – during which time a paediatrician confirmed the baby was growing and developing normally and healthily.

Although significant, this is below the average of around 500 grams that a baby consumes by the time the it is 5 days old. After six weeks, the woman supplemented her breastfeeding with formula.

So.... for how many weeks did this infant receive half the nutrition it needed?

This male only supplemented the feeding regime at SIX WEEKS!!!

And this was supposed to be monitored surely. It was an experiment. Why was this allowed!

From the New Scientist article.
www.newscientist.com/article/2161151-transgender-woman-is-first-to-be-able-to-breastfeed-her-baby/#ixzz6f2Pil0Ik

https://archive.is/waNxb

Just to point out how many weeks did this infant receive half the nutrition it needed?

6 weeks

This male only supplemented the feeding regime at SIX WEEKS!!! The only nutrition that infant received was those secretions.

this is just one of the safeguarding aspect that is failing around this issue.

And again, just to repeat this:

"However, the woman’s breastmilk has not been assessed yet, so we don’t know if it has the same mix of components as in milk from new gestational mothers. This means the practice cannot yet be recommended, says Madeline Deutsch at the University of California, San Francisco. She says she can see the potential benefits of breastfeeding, but that the long-term impact of this milk on the baby – including on subtle measures like IQ – is unknown."

Just to repeat the Associate Professor of Family community medicine, Medical Doctor transwoman's comment about the potential long term impact of feeding this substance to infants:

"the long-term impact of this milk on the baby – including on subtle measures like IQ – is unknown."

But hey ... apparently the Family Community Medicine doctor who is transgender themselves is to be ignored.

Replying to all who have replied to me: I read the mainstream press, and I haven't read anything about these pervs doing such things. Surely if you go looking for online spaces where pervs hang out, you will find pervs?!

I agree that transwomen should be more sympathetic to women. If I were a transwoman, I would not want to upset anybody, and I would use single-space loos and changing rooms wherever possible. I would use the disabled loo rather than the women's loo, and I'd change there too, if we're talking about a swimming pool. Yes, I know they're meant for disabled people, but if there's no disabled person in sight, then I don't think it matters if it's used by a transperson for a minute or two. I also would order undies online instead of making women uncomfortable in lingerie departments. I would go out of my way to avoid pushing into women's spaces, while also trying to make sure that I didn't get beaten up in a men's space. i.e. I'd probably feel more comfortable as a transwoman using the male loos at the theatre rather than the football ground.

There might well be transwomen who do all this, but you wouldn't know, because by definition, they're more invisible.

I dunno, I just tend to think positive and believe the best of most people. And I believe that most transpeople are genuine and don't want to upset women. I think it's quite possible that posters here are focusing too much on bad actors, who aren't the majority.

ETA: About the breastfeeding, I agree that there are too many unknowns about the milk that's produced. But since transwomen produce so little anyway, it sounds as if it'll be a non-issue. I'm sure that the majority of transpeople who are parents use formula, like gay male parents, for the very reason that we don't know the longterm effects. Again, we're focusing on an outlier.

"But since transwomen produce so little anyway, it sounds as if it'll be a non-issue."

How many infants will it be OK to have fed this way before it is considered an issue that women can discuss without being told they are prejudiced and hateful by you and others like you?

How many women are to face prosecution before the message gets through that this is not OK?

Seriously?

How many infants will it be considered acceptable to be potentially harmed because YOU, personally, consider this a NON-ISSUE?

Someone has records of at least 20 infants being fed this way just in Australia! There are images of male people doing this in the UK and other countries. And yet, you dismiss it is a NON-ISSUE. You really don't understand safeguarding.

And I think you are projecting your own values onto a group of male people who you don't seem to have understood at all, but have assumed that you are knowledgeable about.

The language is still wrong, wrong, wrong, though, isn't it? The OP quotes

"A transgender mother". A mother is female who has given birth. This is not a mother here, this is a natal male, isn't it? Maybe I'm confused, or maybe that's the idea.

Here you go @SoftBalletShoes , maybe this will help you catch up on why NO male person above 8 years old should be using any female single sex space.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3348290-It-will-never-happen-resource-thread?latest=0

Also look up just for the UK, transcrime uk.com. All one word, but it is a site that MN tends to delete links too.

Since it's so little anyway, why bother at all? It cannot be for the child. It is for the adult.

Shame. Shame. Shame on them for deliberately doing the opposite of wha's best for an Innocent baby. It fills me with disgust.

I'm not saying people are prejudiced and hateful because they're uncomfortable with the breastfeeding issue. I'm talking about attitudes towards trans people as a whole.

The breastfeeding thing is just silly. Transwomen can't breastfeed and they should accept that and use formula, as most do.

But as far as I'm aware, there's no evidence that the milk produced is harmful, correct? Equally, I suppose there's none that says it's NOT harmful, either. The NHS should say that we don't know the longterm effects and, therefore, they won't give transwomen the drugs to produce it.

The babies are actually the biological children of these transwoman. You talk as if random babies are being given to them! Apart from the milk being under question, why does it harm the baby to nurse on a female-born nipple but not one with a breast implant? After all, women with breast implants nurse, too.

I think the greater concern is the composition of the milk.

Why do it? I suppose for at least one of the same reasons a woman does it - to promote bonding.

Anyway, I'm sure that very few transwoman who are parents actually do this. We're zeroing in on an outlier, who doesn't represent most transgender parents.

Surely by now most on FWR can spot those who arrive and start posting contratian ideas, that there is no need to respond.

Even if they are genuine, not all threads need to be let alone have to be wasting time going through the basics of sex based rights for people who aren't interested.

Thanks to whoever spotted, which I didn't that this all happened 6 years ago and this man is still carrying out his vendetta against a women who was carrying out her profession in a professional way.

I wonder what her situaiton is now.

The guys are quite keen to boast about their disgusting behaviour on social media - most is what they’ve filmed themselves.

I recognise at least one famous person from the description above - clue, he’s a comedian who likes wearing his own clothes, speaks fluent French and fancies himself as a politician. Last seen adjusting his nuts in the queue for the ladies at a railway station.

I agree that behaviour is not representative of quite a few trans people. The ones born female don’t behave like that at all. How strange.

@Helleofabore Thanks for those resources. I'll look at them. They seem to be a collection of instances of bad actors, at first glance. But what proportion of the trans population do these bad actors represent? I suppose I'm just naive, but I tend to have a positive outlook and think that most people are not bad people. Unfortunately, you get bad actors everywhere, like female teachers abusing young male students. The DM has carried many such stories in recent years, which makes it seem like an epidemic, but the vast, vast majority of female teachers do not abuse their young male students!

"I'm not saying people are prejudiced and hateful because they're uncomfortable with the breastfeeding issue. I'm talking about attitudes towards trans people as a whole."

Yet you have in two posts on this specific thread posted about hate and prejudice.

You have also repeated misinformation and not once acknowledged that you have posted that misinformation. Now you seem confused.

You are saying that transwomen 'can't breastfeed', then you say 'no evidence that the milk produced is harmful' as if that means that it is quite OK for it to happen.

Then you defend with , "babies are actually the biological children of these transwoman" based purely on your own assumption. Some of these infants have NO biological connection to the male people demanding to feed them. ONE was the child's GRANDFATHER.

You then have brought it something totally irrelevant in your need to justify your position, which is becoming increasingly confused every post.

It really is clear that you don't understand the safeguarding needs of children.