Survey on culture in the UK - 'trans rights' questions

[ArabellaSaurus]

New survey

19% of people say 'trans rights have not gone far enough' in the UK.
39% say 'trans rights have gone too far'.

That's a really big change in the past five years.

'The proportion who say transgender rights have gone too far in the UK has more than doubled since 2020, from 17% to 39%, though overall there is still no public consensus on the issue, with 19% now saying transgender rights have not gone far enough, 27% saying they’ve gone as far as they should, and a further 15% not giving an opinion.
The proportion of people who say transgender rights have gone too far has doubled among all age groups – even 16-24s, where one in five (19%) now feel this way, compared with around one in 10 (9%) in 2020. However, young people are still more likely to say transgender rights have not gone far enough (36%).'

https://www.ipsos.com/en-uk/uks-sense-division-reaches-new-high-culture-war-tensions-grow-study-finds

Article:

https://unherd.com/newsroom/growing-number-of-britons-think-trans-rights-have-gone-too-far/

Light years behind, eh Gnasher???
😂

Aye, if you say so. You have been consistently debunked on this thread alone, did someone send you over here from Reddit for a dare?

And there we have it.

Every single time 🙄.

This is the bit I can't get my head around. That and the fact that if a TW rapes someone, she/her pronouns are seemingly no longer deserved.

I would understand it a lot more if Gnasher held a consistent belief. Either TW are women or they aren't. It seems cruel to hold a belief that TWAW but then gatekeep some kind of arbitrary standard that determines if a TW is the right kind of TW or not. Surely you either accept people's gender identity is whatever they tell you it is (the main premise of believing that TWAW).... or you don't.

Well, @Gnasher1981 has admitted he would believe all transwomen.

I've repeatedly asked what if he was wrong and had given a predator the opportunity to harm a little girl, what then?

Gnasher has been unable to answer.

So you don't believe in any separation of men and women, or adults and children, at all then? The bad'uns will find a way anyway, so throw open the doors and let all comers in?

In fact sod it, why do we even bother with changing rooms or private toilets at all? Let's strip in the streets and piss in Roman-style communal latrines with joyous abandon!

Becuse if it's wrong to have general exclusions, then that goes for everything surely. I mean, you would not be so prejudiced against men that you'd only exclude the trans identifying ones from having to be treated as a possible threat, right?

Honestly, I am SO SICK of this LIE that people who want to maintain the existing rights, protections, boundries and yes, opportunities that exist to support female people "assume all trans people are SAs". It is such a lie.

Beyond the stastical differences we no more assume TW are SAs than any other man. We just do not believe they are women and do not accept the degradation of having to pretend they are because they have some sort of sexist idea that their mind is a womanny one. And that is an entirely reasonable, fair and resoectful position to take.

Trans isn't a protected characteristic.

The protected characteristics are

• Age: Protection from discrimination based on age.
• Disability: Protection for individuals with a disability.
• Gender reassignment: Protection for people who are proposing to undergo, are undergoing, or have undergone a process (or part of a process) for reassigning their sex.
• Marriage and civil partnership: Protection for those who are married or in a civil partnership.
• Pregnancy and maternity: Protection from discrimination related to pregnancy and maternity leave.
• Race: Protection against discrimination on the grounds of race, including color, nationality, and ethnic or national origins.
• Religion or belief: Protection based on religion or belief, including lack of belief.
• Sex: Protection based on being male or female.
• Sexual orientation: Protection against discrimination because of a person's sexual orientation.

I feel trans women shouldn't work in a rape crisis centre because there will be some very vulnerable victims there who will be unable to open up to a biological I cal male.
This is not a trans person's fault, it is a difficult situation and I think we can all agree there needs to be a lot of understanding for the victims needs.
Even a violent anti trans woman who is a rape victim deserves help.
I think those who work in rape crisis centres can explain it better than me.

I don't think anyone who works in a rape crisis centre should discuss this with you at all tbh.

They can’t. ERCC v R Adams.

@Gnasher1981

Can you answer my question please?
I've asked it 3 times now.

Wonderful. So you agree that TW are bological males.

Fabulous. They can use the single-sex spaces, sports categories, etc. for biological males or unisex spaces then.

Glad that we can agree on this.

@Gnasher1981 You don't actually believe that TWAW though. You just haven't really thought it through logically. If you did, you wouldn't believe that trans women should be excluded from anywhere that is female only. The fact is, you know there are legitimate reasons for excluding males from female spaces but for some reason you prefer not to think about it. I'll ask you again - why do you think my teenage daughter should have to change in front of males? She doesn't want to and neither do her friends.

I'm going to assume that you mean you're a female who doesn't identify as a woman. Please do correct me if I've got that wrong.

If that's the case, good for you. If it brings you comfort not to identify as a woman and makes sense to you, great! One thing you'll unfortunately probably need to accept though, if you want to stay sane and not feel angry at the world, is that not everyone shares your belief that everyone has a gender identity.

And if you end up deciding you want to take cross-sex hormones or remove body parts to help affirm your belief that you're not a woman, it's worth noting that there is an increasingly mounting evidence base that shows the harm that testosterone does to the female body.

This is a very strange question. I've seen male child minders, teachers, pediatricians, etc, and they all have access to children. If they abuse the children is that somehow my fault? There have many reports of cis women abusing children, is that somehow my fault? Or maybe they are yours? What will you do then?
You're questions are just a way of accusing all trns peiple of being abusers, which they ar not.

We do not agree this. There needs be nuance and understanding and i believe you are not very understanding.

But it is not just about safeguarding! What about my question? Would you really be ok with males showering with teenage girls? (Or indeed any females but the situation we had was with teenage girls). Why do their wants and needs not matter? Do you ever consider what a disservice we are doing to our daughters by telling them they have to have no boundaries?

No you need to explain it. If trans women are women - your belief not mine - what possible reason could there be for them to be excluded from womanhood in some circumstances?

What nuance? That you think men should be allowed to use women in some circumstances and not others? Who gets to decide?

Alas, the Supreme Court of the UK has already done so. They agree with us.

And what about when that very vulnerable woman has a mental health crisis and ends up in a secure hospital ward ... and finds she is sharing it with a male person because he identifies as a woman. It's a locked ward. She can't get away . Is that ok?

Or she needs intimate physical care, in a hospital, or at home. Should she have to spill her whole history of having been sexually abused in order to be allowed genuinely same-sex care?

Ooh spot the transphobia. What did you just say there????

I'm a cis male who identifies as a male.
Women also have testosterone naturally accuring, some a lot more than others. It is not only harmless it also increases a woman's libido, and is recommended for those going through menopause (sorry if that feels like mansplaining, it just goes with this particular conversation).

Aw, bless.

If you are new here, read the archives.

Most of us actually would have said similar to you, light years ago.

But the longer we live and the more we think, the more we learn and the clearer we see, and the world is not going to stop abusing and marginalising female people just because someone decides the name for people with our bodies can't be "women" any more because some sad men need to be called "women" too.

So as long as sexism is based on our bodies, the protections against it need to be based on our bodies as well.

Because whatever trans women are experiencing (and once you get past menaingless platitudes into actual examples I have never ever heard it described as anything that does not eventually boil down to that man simply having reductive, simplistic and often downright offensive ideas about how women think and live) it is manifestly not the same thing as being female bodied.

And once you stop putting all your attention on what trans women want and start to ask why is it that, given trans women are not female and therefore their "womanhood" cannot be dependant on being female, whatever it is that they need for their womahood cannot exist alongside social, political and legal recognitin of female people and out rights and needs, you realise that there is no answer to that question, and that what trans women are demanding under the banner of safety and acceptance for trans people is really just about their need to access and control women by utterly stamping out female people;s right to self define and self organise without them.

We don't let those men into a toilet or changing room with girls.

When you declare TWAW, you allow men into toilets and changing rooms with girls, creating an opportunity to molest that didn't previously exist.

Why not? The trans person will be harmless, and there are also cis male gynecologists so why not a trans one?