Government announces 10 Million pound boost to protect Muslim communities

[happydappy2]

https://x.com/DadRogd/status/1981327249870569889

this money will go towards CCTV, alarms and fencing round mosques….

Meanwhile there are SO MANY other areas of the country that are desperate for a financial boost….Why is this one religion put on a pedestal? This particular religion that doesn’t treat women as equals.

Why do you separate religion from their experiences? It’s not something that exists only in text, religion is something that is lived and experienced.

And in the case of the women and girls in those countries it doesn’t work to say you can’t see the impact on their lives.

The article itself notes only 2% of crimes was theft of lead, as opposed to 22% of crimes being violence or assault.

As opposed to Islam actually promoting paedophilia by saying nine year old girls can be forced to marry.

Because men often use religion as a cover for them to exert/maintain control. I'm merely making the point that what the three Abrahamic religions say about women is fairly similar. This was in response to a poster saying that the covering of a nun was completely different to that of a Muslim.

We're not in Afghanistan, Iran, Libya, Syria, UAE etc.

But if you want to bring other countries into the mix, then lets talk about Christianity and the US - what about their new abortion laws? Or their ongoing issues with child marriage. Or perhaps countries such as Tanzania where Christian areas are more likely to be practicing FGM than areas of other religions. Even closer to home, I no doubt don't have to remind you of the years of abuse carried out to young children by members of the clergy.

A practising Christian in the UK is no more to blame for any of those things, as much as a practising Muslim in the UK is to blame for the actions of the countries you listed.

It's almost as if its not the religion itself thats the issue here, but the men in power who are using 'religion' to exploit and abuse women and young girls 🤔

Source please from Quran?

Luckily we are flush with money at the moment so what’s ten million pounds.

If crime prevention is the issue &, as another poster observed, divided among all the local authorities this would cover only fairly basic measures like security cameras, then I am at a loss to understand why similar sums are not being apportioned to churches. According to a National Churches Trust report this April, over the last 3 years churches have seen 1,974 cases of violence, 3,237 incidents of criminal damage, vandalism and arson, as well as 3,758 thefts and burglaries, this last fgure does not include 179 lead and metal thefts. Roof lead theft in particular is not only extremely costly in lead value, scaffolding & skilled labour but the listed status of many affected churches significantly increases outlay on repair & replacement & precludes the use of cheaper materials.
Incidentally, "hate crime" figures have been over-recorded for years, first by virtue of poor & inconsistent recording pratices across Forces & in many cases by artificially inflating the figures via the addition of "non crime hate incidents". .

Think you need to reread your bible...Numbers makes an intersting read with Moses comanding his army to take young girls for themselves. Or how about in Genesis - Isaac marrying Rebekah when she would have been 3...

There's more but I can't remember them off the top of my head.

No, they’re not, for all kinds of reasons.. But if you compare extreme interpretations of each of these religions there’s not much difference. And if you want to talk about religion and women’s rights, I think it’s important to recognise the pervasive influence of more than just Islam.

Money spent on crime prevention should be spent where the crime is being committed. If that is Mosques (although it sounds like this funding might be available to any place of worship), then the sensible solution is to spend the money on Mosques.

Whatever I think of Islam and the role of women within it, my answer would never be 'lets smash the windows in their place of worship, throw bacon at them, and physically intimidate the worshippers.' nor would I allow others to do that to them because I've decided they somehow 'deserve' it.

Are you genuinely unable to distinguish between the theft of roof lead and hate crime against people and their religion?

Agree on inconsistencies in hate crime recording but to pretend there’s not reliable evidence of a rise in antisemitism and anti-Muslim rhetoric and actions is… well as baffling as thinking stealing lead is comparable to hate crime.

But what about the other 98% of crimes against churches? Why are you focusing on 2% that involve lead theft?

You’re right, they’re not.

No they haven't.

I’m responding to the pp, who also singled out lead theft. But the rest of their list also does not point to hate crimes against Christians or churches.

Religious hate crimes against Christians have increased in the last year - from 609 in 2022/23 to 702 in 2023/24. But overall this is less than 7% of all hate crime incidents in that year (Home Office, Hate Crime, England and Wales, year ending March 2024).

What's this, then?

Record funding to protect Jewish communities - GOV.UK https://share.google/3JFACzMYxFhdAw3UG

I need not pretend anything. As I indicated, the figures for "hate crime" are unreliable. I'd also point out that there is no such thing as a "hate crime", hence my use of quote marks. What exists in law is the aggravator of "hate", a putative motivation which can increase the penalty at sentencing if a criminal offence is deemed to have been motivated by an animus towards one of the police's 5 "monitored strands" (race, religion, disability, sexual orientation, and transgender identity. Sex was not added because New Labour felt that misogyny is so entrenched in UK life that troubling the courts & police to address it would overwhelm the criminal justice system so, as ever, only groups containing men attracted their benificence.

For most women in the UK, of all the religions it is Christianity that has had the most misogynistic impact on their lives. E.g. the culture around unmarried mothers was absolutely brutal before the 60s and not great after, still isn’t fair. And that is largely down to Christian morality shaping social attitudes. Rape in marriage not being criminal until the 90s was down to Christian attitudes to women. The history of denying women education and leadership positions and appropriate careers that we have still not fully overcome - down to Christian attitudes to women’s “place”. And less explosive but more all encompassing things like the attitudes what women wear, Etc. all shaped by the Christian Church.

All of this has affected me. From the impact on my grandmother of being illegitimate, to the abysmal situation my mother was in as a single mother in the 70s and 80s. The school curriculum, and uniform. Sexist expectations about what we should do in Church, Guides, School, etc. Career availability. Attitudes to sexuality. And on. It’s only really the last few decades that it has become not okay for people to say “Well it’s not very Christian” to back up sexist social pressure. And there;s still some pressure there, it’s just no longer as popular with the majority.

And the Chruches themselves have not become bastions of equality. The Catholic Church is still chockingly sexist. The Church of England is finally allowing women an almost equal opportunity at leadership, but they are committed to TWAW, so still plenty of misogyny there. The Churches that don’t have great hierarchies have tended not to have such obvious stands against women’s equality, but they still tend to have a fair number of social attitudes that are pretty sexist.

So when people say - “look at the awful, sexist Muslims”, those of us who say “Hold a minute, they are people like Christians.” aren’t necessarily thinking “No, they’re wonderful!” (I’m certainly not). We’re just giving you the side eye thinking, “Right, cause Christians are so great. </sarcasm>”

(Edited as realised had made assumption about poster’s faith).

Oh give over. ‘Sex crimes’ isn’t a specific offence either, neither is domestic violence (until very recently) but I’m sure you know what it means when someone refers to it.

Agree that sex should be included in hate crime recording.

I draw to your attention the Sexual Offences Act 2003. Sex crimes do indeed exist & may have the aggravator of hate added to them where appropriate.

I think people overestimate how much £10 million is. In the overall country budget that is nothing and might buy each council a few CCTV cameras to share between all the mosques.

No, they don’t - ‘sex crime’ is an umbrella term for a range of offences, as is violence against the person, as is hate crime. Your pedantry is not as impressive as you think it is.

I think that money would be better spent on policing and education, with a view of the perpetrators being convicted and the reasons behind the acts being addresed. I appreciate that in the grand scheme of those this money is a drop in the ocean, but I don't think I really agree with tax payer money being used to protect private assets, whether that be a homeowner, a business owner, or a religious or community group.

You seem to be having considerable, perhaps studied, difficulty in distinguishing betweeen a criminal offence & an aggravator.
I have clarified the distinction & shall not expend any further effort on your misconceptions.