Helen Joyce - why gender medicine isn’t science…

[Justme56]

https://www.thehelenjoyce.com/p/why-gender-medicine-isnt-science

“Actually that’s not quite right, because there isn’t any requirement to perform your gender, just to state it. Nothing further than the statement is required of the person making it: it’s other people who have to do the work by believing that statement — that is, by “affirming” that gender. The expression “gender self-identification” is a misnomer — it’s not something you have to do, beyond proclamation, it’s a demand that other people affirm you as being the gender you state yourself to be. Opening the door marked F or M is a way of declaring your gender identity.

There’s no place for other people’s judgment, indeed no role at all for other people except as supporting actors or appreciative audience. No room for them to say they don’t fancy joining in the performance, or to be a critic and say it’s not a very good performance. They’re not allowed to say: “OK, you say you’re a woman, that you’re living as a woman or have a female gender identity, but you don’t seem very female to me.”

Sounds like you don't want to admit gendered expressions existing. I get it. When your whole ideology is built on rejecting patriarchal expectations it kinda doesn't leave any room for organic ones so I won't press you any further.

How is gender expression an evolutionary force?

Attractiveness/cues to the opposite sex for the purposes of reproduction.
Child rearing: sensitivity/neuroticism Trait Agreeability
Aggression for purposes of protection & resource procurement: Trait Disagreeability
Cooperation/reciprocity: Child rearing & communal building

Just to name a few.

I’m 20 posts in to the thread and agree. It’s an interesting article. Let’s give it the attention it deserves.

Well er not to be rude but durrrr of course feminism rejects patriarchal expectations. It’s kind of the point. Are you confused about what feminism is? Have you tried google?

But it doesn’t follow that exhibiting the behaviour of the opposite sex makes you of that sex, any more than a woman being much taller than the average woman makes her a man. Neither does being of one sex preclude an individual from sometimes exhibiting behaviour more typical of the other, because context and personality matter.

And not all members of a sex class exhibit all the same sex characteristics. For me this is just a semantic thing. 'More like that group or more in common or more associated with that group' & wanting to be considered as part of it is probably a more accurate description.

From the point of view of the individual concerned its a subjective choice what group they relate to more because its a personal values based decision. IE Do I define myself by my commonality to physical or psychological traits more?

I agree. The abandonment of normal medical practice in gender “medicine” has been so profound that, like the BBC’s partial reporting, it’s made me wonder what other quack science is sliding by unnoticed in medicine.

Thirded. Howse will just post the same nonsense he always does to disrupt and merail the thread. Ppl desperate to read his views can find them in sundry other threads saying the same thing

the stuff that actually it's other people being expected to perform because all the 'trans' person has to do is declare their new identity really nails it.

As gender medicine is relatively new, surely there should have been thousands of children committing suicide before these “treatments” were established. That would have been huge news do the fact that it didn’t happen suggests that there was no clinical need for “gender.affirming” treatments.

My two favorite GC stylists are Helen Joyce and Suzanne Moore - as writers they're lucid, witty and incisive. What I find remarkable about Joyce is that she speaks extemporaneously in the say way that she writes, so that her prepared speeches like this sound exactly like she does when she gives interviews.

🤣

’biology is real peoples’

you are on a roll today fella

Exactly this. I've never understood the Green Party because of it. How can they understand the science of climate change and not understand or uphold the science of biology and sex.

One of the problems is that it was called 'affirmative care', which euphemized the life altering, experimental nature of the treatment. Once again part of the problem is language and not calling things by their proper name - gender medicine makes clear the oxymoronic aspect of what's being attempted - as if gender, an ideological concept, can be medicine.

Pretty dangerous concept that, at best the product of very lazy thinking. People make many choices that are not worthy of respect.

I make choices that are not worthy of respect, that is why I examine my conscience at the end of each day, and try to do better next time..

It's not the content of the choice that you are being asked to respect but their right to make it. Big difference.

Sorry, back on topic

i liked this Saying someone has gender dysphoria is like saying their humours are out of balance.

the final 3 paragraphs about the motivations of the people performing gender medicine are interesting. HJ is politer than me so she glosses over the motivation that surely drives the people behind the WPATH eunuch stuff. But I do believe it’s real and one day the Overton window will have moved far enough to talk about it

I think she’s right. It’s a good article. Something is being treated, but it’s not an innate gender identity that needs to be made healthy. And the other problem is it’s a whole range of things depending on age: trauma, dissociation, ASD, fetishism, etc. But they are all getting the same approach. It’s not medicine. It’s woo. It’s the way naturopathy claims to be able to treat everything, and every symptom is a symptom of a condition naturopathy claims to be perfect for.

So you think that if someone makes the choice to be a bully or a thief or a rapist I have to respect 'their right to make' that choice, as some kind of independent abstract unrelated to its outcome or 'content'.

Nope.

I wonder will you ever grow up and read back over the silly nonsense you post and cringe? You come across as such a ninny.

This explains why trans identified males are all just so agreeable.

🧐

Apologies, but most rational people understand that choices need to be respected with in the law with out having to be told.

When nut picking news is all you subscribe to…

@Howseitgoin
And not all members of a sex class exhibit all the same sex characteristics. For me this is just a semantic thing. 'More like that group or more in common or more associated with that group' & wanting to be considered as part of it is probably a more accurate description.

From the point of view of the individual concerned its a subjective choice what group they relate to more because its a personal values based decision. IE Do I define myself by my commonality to physical or psychological traits more?

There is no minimum number of sex characteristics that you have to have to be a woman so it is pointless saying 'not all members of a sex class exhibit the same sex characteristics.'

A man can define himself as a woman by whatever physical or psychological traits he imagines he has, and can want to be considered a woman and can want be part of the group called 'women' as much as he likes, but he will never be one.

.

😆 😆 😆

They do. And the law says stay out of women’s toilets.

must remember about not wrestling with a

🐖

Not yet it doesn't so good luck with that. And certainly not outside the UK.