High Court rules that a trans man......

[theilltemperedmaggotintheheartofthelaw]

...... cannot be denied a gender recognition certificate because he is trying to conceive, in an important win supported by Good Law Project.

https://goodlawproject.org/win-victory-in-landmark-case-on-gender-recognition/

Apologies for the source, but it's currently the only free one.

This seems to indicate that it’s so difficult to determine biological sex because of all the variables that we shouldn’t be any sort of division based on male or female. Everything should just be unisex. Is that what you’re saying?

I don't agree its a logical conclusion that everything should be unisex because logistics & potential harms need to be accounted for. IE sports, prisons etc. But that's not to say competing rights aren't manageable or that workable compromises & exceptions can't be made.

It would be discrimination on the basis of the EA protected characteristics of "pregnancy and maternity" and "sex" if pregnant women or women intending to become pregnant were excluded from getting a GRC. The ruling complies with the EA.

Hopefully, cases like this hitting the news will increase the desire to repeal the GRA. It is a literally a piece of paper that lets you be "spinster" instead of "bachelor" or vice-versa in the "Condition" column of your marriage certificate. Surely in 2025, we can write "never married" instead for everyone and then it won't matter any more?

A woman who cannot give birth isn't comparable to a woman who wants to give birth whilst insisting that she is a man.

The key difference is the delusion of being a man. A woman opting out of, or being incapable of, the "most female thing possible" doesn't make her any less a woman. But having the physiology to support a pregnancy, even if it's not firing on all cylinders, makes you definitely not a man.

But according to GC logic on this thread it's the action that makes one feminine. The trans man concerned isn't 'behaviourally'/"using their body" as masculine if they have a baby remember?

"I don’t understand how a legal declaration that you’re going to live as a man is remotely compatible with using your body to do the most female thing possible."

"Femininity" is irrelevant. The butchest wrench-wielding lesbian petrolhead is still female, even if she disregards all the standards of femininity.

It is having the biology, even if it is imperfect, that humans have evolved to bear children that makes a woman a woman. Using that biology is the most female act ever only because it's one of two things (the other being breastfeeding) that no man can ever do. Bearing a child is "the most female thing possible" solely because no male can ever do it. Bearing a child isn't a prerequisite to being a woman, rather it is a unique consequence of being a woman that no man can ever experience. And that inability of men to experience childbearing is why intending to do so is logically incompatible with a legal declaration to live as a man, even if the EA prevents judges from rejecting such a declaration from a would-be mother.

Yeah? So why you berating me about femininity & child birth when its GC's on this thread that said its relevant to living as a woman?

The only person on this thread taking about actions making someone "feminine" is you.

We're arguing that biology is what makes someone male or female. Femininity and masculinity are irrelevant to the discussion.

The point here is that male people (men) cannot become pregnant, therefore a pregnant woman cannot possibly be living as a man.

I don't think I can explain this any more clearly or simply.

Please consult one of your dictionaries and read up on the difference between female and feminine.

They are not synonyms.

"I don’t understand how a legal declaration that you’re going to live as a man is remotely compatible with using your body to do the most female thing possible."

I'm not the one that said this…..😂

Yes, and pp demonstrates a complete logic fail. 'Having a baby = the most female thing you can do', is not the same as 'anyone who doesn't have a baby = not female'. 'Only females give birth' does not equal 'Only people who give birth are female'. This is really basic logic.

Another night, more endless demonstrations of the illogical and inherently misogynistic reasoning deployed by the gender identarians.

Excellent, well done.

Not feminine, female.

Being female is not an action, but rather a biological sex or a gender identity, while actions are things that a person does. The state of "being female" can involve a set of biological, social, and personal characteristics that are distinct from the actions a person takes.

🐿️

Female = biological condition

Feminine = adjective describing stereotypical behavioural qualities that are assumed to be indicative of what female people do. It can also be applied to people who are not female. It means “in the manner of a female”.

They are not the same word with the same meaning.

Female = biological condition

Your'e getting warmer. Yep, it's not an action.

Feminine = actions typically associated with females

You are confusing yourself by using female to also mean “gender identity” when it simply refers to reproductive pathway.

If you genuinely think that a male human can give birth then there’s not much to be done for you.

That's nice dear but a diversion won't change the fact being a CIS female is not an action.

And the toys are out of the pram.

Yep, GC's just hate confronting the fact that they are just as stereotypical in perceptions as garden variety misogynists…

What precedents?

Corbett v Corbett [1971] P83

W v W [2000] 3 FCR 748

Upshot: in law biological sex = sex registered at birth on the main register (including any later corrections based on medical evidence, which are rare)

Sex registered on the Gender Recognition Register =/= biological sex.

@BundleBoogie no you're probably right. The young woman says in her statement that she wants two children and they will be calling her Dad. She could end up with a female partner at some stage, though she previously had a male partner. I can't imagine forcing a young child to deny reality like that. Sickens me to my stomach.

Female = noun

The way (someone gives birth) = noun

To give birth = verb. An action.

Feminine = adjective. A word that describes a noun.

For example:

1. The woman gave birth
2. The feminine woman gave birth
3. The woman gave birth in a feminine way

What makes the woman in this sentence feminine?

The only possible answer is that the observer who wrote the sentence has decided that whatever she was doing prior to or during the birth was stereotypically female enough that it warranted the adjective being added. If she was simply giving birth - an action that only a woman can do - the word "feminine" would be superfluous.

Perhaps prior to and during the early stages of labour she was wearing a selection of floral dresses, baking cakes and softly smiling at everyone while whispering gently about soft, fluffy kittens... and then when things got going she did a series of beautifully delivered pirouettes in the style of a jewellery box ballerina until the baby was born.

Feminine is a state of being & an action.
It refers to the idea that femininity is not just a static state of being, but a performance or a series of actions and behaviors that can be performed or enacted.