TRA Trolls - can we just say NO?

[BlueEyedBogWitch]

A full thread of NO’s might be more powerful than trying to reason with someone who is not interested in reason.

Just one ‘NO’ each, until they get bored and go away. Every time.

After all, it sums up our arguments very succinctly.

This is so.

It's only supportive of posters who derive anti trans views from their experience.

A yes or no answer would greatly help to stop people misinterpreting your views:

is it transphobic for women to need spaces away from men (including transwomen) to deal with trauma?

yes or no?

What a load of balderdash.

It's supportive of women who have lost their jobs, women who require single sex crisis centres, women whose families are being turned upside down, women being treated badly in the workplace, all sorts of women. And women who just want to talk.

Other spaces are also available should you want them. Which makes you lucky, as for many of the women mentioned above, they really really weren't. And still aren't in many cases.

“It's only supportive of posters who derive anti trans views from their experience.”

It is not ‘anti-trans’ to hold the view that female people need to have female single sex provisions. And if those provisions are spaces, then those spaces should exclude any male person over 8 years old.

Do you consider female people who need these single sex spaces to be female only ‘anti trans’ and ‘transphobic’?

If you are saying that acknowledging the existence of physically female people as separate from male and recognising that from time to time they will have experiences, needs, challenges and risks that are rooted in and specific to being female bodied is "anti trans", then you are saying very very clearly that there is a clash of needs and rights between trans rights and female people.

I hope you are wrong.

But if you are really right and there cannot be a compromise, as a Feminist I will always chose to recognise the needs, rights and existence of female people.

Crossed with Bernard.

I didn’t derive “anti trans” views from my experience, I just don’t want men in my female spaces. Nothing to do with whether those men believe they are women or not.

I find FWR supportive much of the time. If any view I hold is deemed to be "anti trans" I would appreciate it if that view could be described.

If not - happy days, and we'll see that that statement about who feels supported is therefore incorrect.

(I have had views wrongly ascribed to me on here before by people who don't care too much about posting things that are true, so it's something I try to look out for, to avoid crossed wires.)

Just to clarify further Tandora.

You posted this in response to Flirts on the other thread.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5422838-what-is-trans-and-why-does-it-justify-undoing-sex-in-law-society-culture-and-history?page=25

Your post at 11.11

" Someone else being trans does not negatively impact you. You just think it does because you're very transphobic.

Sorry to be blunt but this is the bottom line. "

In reading this response, I can only think that the answer to my question :

"Do you consider female people who need these single sex spaces to be female only ‘anti trans’ and ‘transphobic’?"

is 'Yes'. Because what other interpretation would be accurate?

Can you please be very clear about this? Because I think that currently you are perhaps trying to avoid answering clearly.

I cannot answer your question because it's a logical fallacy.

I consider that pp to be very transphobic because of all kinds of things she says. Specifically in this post I was highlighting that her idea that someone else being trans harms her is very transphobic .

Sorry. I don't accept this at all and I think you are being dishonest.

I think I have asked you a very clear question based on your own posting history.

"Do you consider female people who need these single sex spaces to be female only ‘anti trans’ and ‘transphobic’?"

What is your answer please?

Again, helle, I cannot answer that question because it is a logical fallacy.

For people who like to repeat that "no means no", you're not very good at taking no for an answer are you?

Explain very clearly why this is a logical fallacy in your mind please. Stop just saying you won't answer it.

I will just keep repeating the question because you refuse to clarify this over threads. I will just keep bring it up. So, please explain and I will then reframe this question so that we all understand exactly what you believe about the female people you have come across as repeatedly dismissing.

How is it a logical fallacy? Do you believe females who need single sex spaces and exclude all males are transphobic? It’s an easy yes or no question

I am rather keen to understand the flaw in the question.

Its not a fallacy. Its just a straightforward question.

Is it transphobic to want a single sex service/space/facility?

I would say no: It's not transphobic to want a single sex facility/service/space.

It's a yes/no question that I think almost anyone could answer with ease. No special qualifications or skills needed.

It’s very controlling behaviour. Time to get off the echo chamber and into real life!

Don't we need that laugh emoji back.

It's a logical fallacy becuase that's a phrase used to obscure the fact that tandora can't answer the question: "Do you consider female people who need these single sex spaces to be female only ‘anti trans’ and ‘transphobic’?" without outing themselves as prioritising the demands of men wishing to access women and girls undressing etc.

Sadly, those who try to wedge men into spaces where women & girls are undressing / vulnerable and who support the sterilisation and medical experimentation on children and young people who've been gaslit that their pubertal angst can be cured with a sex change, will always attempt to deny and obscure the reality of what they're promoting.

The question of whether or not someone personally considers a belief to fit the description of a label isn't a 'logical fallacy'.

It's not setting out a premise, or using incorrect logic to reach a conclusion.
It's asking someone what they think about a word they use repeatedly.

Its funny, almost every post you make contains behaviour you condemn other people for. Have you ever noticed that?

In this post, you accuse someone of being controlling, and then instruct them to do something.

Weird, no?

Why is it a logical fallacy? Can you please explain.

It's a logical fallacy because in order to answer it I would have to accept its inbuilt assumption that your position on trans issues (exclusion) is somehow justified by the "needs" of "women" and to preserve "single sex" spaces. Furthermore, it is far too general for it to be meaningful - what spaces? In what contexts? Which needs?

You will just keep repeating the question? As @Plastictreees said , this is very controlling behaviour.