TRA Trolls - can we just say NO?

[BlueEyedBogWitch]

A full thread of NO’s might be more powerful than trying to reason with someone who is not interested in reason.

Just one ‘NO’ each, until they get bored and go away. Every time.

After all, it sums up our arguments very succinctly.

Lovely people don’t belittle a rape victim’s feelings and peddle harmful ideologies.

Willoughby even claimed to have a cervix, and worryingly, to show it to people.

I laughed myself silly over that.

Do you have any evidence that either of these men believe a single word that comes out of their mouths? (I note that one of them seems more mentally unwell than the other and I suppose it is genuinely possible that he believes he is of the same sex class as his mother and ex-wife, but I doubt it very much).

Do you honestly believe (and obviously I hope this never happens) they were to been cornered by knife-wielding maniacs saying "are you an adult human male or an adult human female, and I will kill you if you give the factually incorrect answer" they would both say "female"?

The thing you are calling transphobia is not equivalent though is it?

We, as a group marginalised because of our sex, are resisting having a definition of womanhood that does not include sex foisted upon us.

This means saying that trans women are not women and do not qualify for the rights, spaces and language of women.

It is neither a hatred nor an irrational fear, it is simply saying no.

If you want an -ist to compare it to, "Feminist" is more appropriate.

But do you honestly think that deep down he believes what he says? I have to say (and maybe I am being charitable) that I refuse to acept that he can have been so successfully and completely indoctrinated.

Is a woman who says she doesn't want men (whether trans or not) in female single sex spaces transphobic?

they are only interested in you obeying and towing the line.

Given that just before you wrote that you were implying a lack of education on the part of another poster, I thought I should gently correct your wrong spelling in the line above. The expression is toeing the line. You're not trying to pull it anywhere. 😉

Of course he doesn't, he's just made a grifting career out of claiming to be more of a woman than actual women, having been a mediocre journalist that no one has heard of. Frankly I'm just surprised he didn't claim to have two.

I don't think everything that people say on these boards is transphobic, but there is a lot of stuff that is - like some of the examples I've highlighted on recent threads:

"I hate the bastards"
"unspecified hurtyfeelz"
[in response to me explaining what it is to be trans] "you wouldn't dare say that if you were confronted by a trans identified male in a prison" etc. etc.

Unspecified hurtyfeelz is not transphobic. It's an amusing term for the fact that the sense of outrage can't be articulated in a meangful sense. Similar to that of a toddler having a screaming jag about nothing visible.

Oh.

Are we just saying No, yet? Cos I’ve just carefully not engaged elsewhere despite mahoosive temptation.

It’s hard to read bollox and make no effort to correct it.

I doubt they believe they are the same sex class. They claim to believe that "woman" is something other than the sex class, something they also are.

Are they genuine? I can't see inside their minds.

And honestly I don't care.

I don't think we need to prove these men are lying before we can justify excluding them. I think that's a trap genderists lay to hide the fact that the whole thing is an utterly unreasonable ask of women.

I think we need to keep turning the focus away from their self image and what it does or does not justify, and back to the inescapable reality of female existence and that regardless of whether you label that "womanhood" or not, we exist, our sex has consequences and that in its own right is enough to make us meaningfully different to whatever it is trans women are feeling.

We don't have to justify why we exclude trans women specifically, because they are no more like us than any other male.

MERF not terf.

[in response to me explaining what it is to be trans] "you wouldn't dare say that if you were confronted by a trans identified male in a prison" etc. etc.

You are running a bit hot here @Tandora That was in response to someone else saying that you would probably handwave away trans-identified male sex offenders in women's prisons as being 'not really trans'. These exchanges arose because you totally ignored the prison offending stats that I posted.

I think you vastly underestimate the number of women who first came to FWR seeking a well-reasoned and evidenced argument that would explain why we should accept gender ideology. Some of us are actually biased in your favour, hoping that we can breathe a sigh of relief and go back to our workplaces and school gates chanting transwomen are women. We have been fervently willing you on to produce something that stands up to even mild criticism.

the sense of outrage can't be articulated in a meangful sense. Similar to that of a toddler having a screaming jag about nothing visible.

This post is also transphobic. And there's nothing funny about it. Gender dysphoria is not funny and it's not trivial.

Now you've jumped the shark. I was talking about the phrase 'unspecified hurtyfeelz' as applicable to any scenario, at no point did I mention trans. You're the one who shoehorned that in, I was just explaining the phrase and how I see it.

This is exactly the sort of scattergun accusation of transphobia that we are talking about. I could talk about my kettle and you'd somehow make it transphobic.

The people here neither hate nor fear trans-identifying people which is the core meaning of transphobia. Stonewall expanded the historic meaning to include a refusal to affirm trans identities, which they had no authority to do. I neither hate nor fear trans-identifying people, but I do not believe they have changed sex, so cannot affirm their identities, only the fact that this is what they believe of themselves. If that makes me transphobic under the Stonewall definition, so be it.

It's tough when you choose to post on a board on which you know there is a certain unity or agreement amongst the posters with regards a particular issue...and one that you run counter to. But you do choose to post here

Many people have tried to engage with your posts ( myself included), sometimes at great length, only to be ignored. People come here because they have already decided that they have more interest in the rights and protections of female people and children, than they do in welcoming male people into female spaces, services and/or categories on the basis of their feelings or self perception alone.

Furthermore, most have also come to the conclusion that the whole gender Identity concept is fatally flawed having spent considerable time and energy researching, reading, listening, attending conferences etc to feel secure in that conclusion.

Nothing you are saying has not been said before. Nothing you are saying is convincing anyone of anything, other than the fact that Gender Identity and trans identities are vague. illusory concepts, which exist, of course, in the minds of those that believe - but they certainly don't trump the reality of sex based reality and the established protections of female people.

What are you talking about,

"unspecified hurtyfeelz" was referring to dysphoria experienced by trans people.

Maybe don't jump in to defend it if you are talking about something else?

Oh dear. The phrase is not transphobic. And perfectly accurately, in the trans context, describes the fact the feelz can't be articulated clearly. Same as when my cat has unspecified hurtyfeelz, which he does, frequently.

And it's not felinophobic to say that.

Of course I don't, but Tandora and others spend a lot of time trying to prove to us that it's true.

Quite.

I’ve now, after witnessing many threads, put it down to main character energy or just plain old fashioned attention seeking.

OK, I really don't understand this one - "Unspecified hurtyfeelz" - those quoted words, in and of themselves?
How is that in any way relating to sex, gender, trans, or anything?

If it is only transphobic when used a specific way could it please be quoted in the way it is transphobic?

Otherwise it's as good as saying the word 'and' is transphobic because it's used in insults.
Does this actually make sense? It's all solely with the aim of trying to understand what it is that is being communicated. If you mean something but don't type it out, we can't divine it.

Maybe don’t attribute it to something it’s not?

I suppose what I mean is that however much these men claim to be women I do not for one second believe that they don't know that they are not the same sex class as the person who birthed them, which means that they know they are not women (whatever pointless linguistic games they might choose to play).

I don't care either, and if anything if a man is so mentally unwell that he genuinely believes himself to be of the sex class that get's pregnant and gives birth there is even less reason to allow him into women's spaces. I don't believe that there's any reason to allow men into women's spaces, ever, but if there were it would certianly not be on the basis of only allowing in the most mentally unwell men.