TRA Trolls - can we just say NO?

[BlueEyedBogWitch]

A full thread of NO’s might be more powerful than trying to reason with someone who is not interested in reason.

Just one ‘NO’ each, until they get bored and go away. Every time.

After all, it sums up our arguments very succinctly.

I spotted the one going on just now straight away.

They’re so transparently sock-puppeting and collecting quotes for Reddit.

Just NO.

I like this idea! I know that being reasonable does enable newcomers to FWR to see the difference between sane women and bloody annoying TRAs but just once it would be sooooo nice 😀

I just don’t know why posters on FWR don’t just ignore these people, but they don’t, they bite every single time. To be honest I often find them more annoying that the original TRA troll.

I don’t ignore because I have trauma and part of that is needing to defend myself.

I don’t really care if that annoys anyone else. The trauma is much more annoying for me, trust me.

They come in waves - now is particularly bad!

No one needs to defend themselves from someone anonymous on an online forum, though. You’re choosing to read the post and respond. All you’re doing is giving them oxygen so they’ll come back again and again and again.

Posters rarely listened to Bunbury, the PSA or Fermat’s manoeuvre existed. Posters usually argue for the value of elaborating and responding for the benefit of 3rd party lurkers etc.

There are probably lots of links still available.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3404292-bunbury

Defend myself was the wrong phrase. I need to explain.

I have cPTSD, GAD and associated trauma. It’s important to me to explain why I need women’s single sex spaces.

I don’t care how much oxygen it gives them. I care that other people will read why it matters, how important it is, and it might make at least one person think every time I explain it.

If you don’t like reading about what happened to me, I’m sorry about that. But I will not sit down and shut up to keep men happy.

Bunbury was banned and if everyone just said 'No' it would be accused of bullying or something.

Facts are the best response, not for them but for the lurkers.

I didn’t think they were actual people for a long time, they seemed so cliched and badly thought through, it must be a parody of a TRA for arguments sake. I thought it was a GC person making their ridiculous TRA arguments just to get them explained by someone logical.

Now they are just boring and repetitive and irritating. Men who won’t leave women to talk amongst themselves. There’s enough of those old bores in real life. Yawn.

I can see the value of arguing the point though for lurkers.

I know what you mean. Learning how to navigate people who wish oneself ill is a process, and it's something we learn to do for ourselves. Doesn't matter it someone else finds it annoying or boring, really.

Lots if not most women have experiences of some type of abuse at the hands of men. One of the things this board can do is help women to find their assertive voice. That might include learning how to say 'no', leaving behind people pleasing, and learning to live with the knowledge that disappointing people is inevitable.

Also noting that trying to find consensus in FWR is like herding cats. Impossible, but also often quite enjoyable.

Exactly. No one owns this board and we all get emotional stuff out of it. It is annoying sometimes when you know people are engaging with a troll but that’s life. Other people can post as they see fit.

I don't object to your idea, op but people won't stick to it.

I used to respond because I'd deluded myself into believing that the solution was to think up the perfect pithy riposte. Then I decided that was basically my ego talking and that any response, however reasonable or clever, just egged them on further. So now I ignore them.

I don't disagree that there are some good and valid arguments for knowledgeable and thoughtful responses but, in my opinion, we've reached a tipping point where it does more harm than good.

Edited to add but I also don't think it's my place to tell other posters how to deal with it.

I agree.

Now they are just boring and repetitive and irritating. Men who won’t leave women to talk amongst themselves.

Yes. What's the betting that one will eventually turn up on here and accuse the board of being an "echo chamber"? While they themselves do not engage, don't answer the points put to them and basically want to talk all over women.

There are two current threads about trolls, and I’m very surprised we haven’t yet had any scolding.

I see a bit of a pattern in quite a few of them. An attempt to cream off the 'trutrans' (the original homosexual transsexual) from all those nasty, heterosexual men who are just pretending. I think what might be happening is that some trutrans are trying to engage us to fight on their behalf, because they are obviously not prepared to organise and put in the hard, dangerous graft themselves. Basically they are trying to turn the clock back a couple of decades and have a fresh start.

Trolls don't identify as trolls, so they don't think these threads are about them!

Yes, interrupting a good conversation with some of their own cliched nonsense everyone’s heard 100 times before. Only answering their favourite inflammatory posts and generally being predictably irritating.
Im sick of it in real life, and on here.

It is really fascinating to see that even though they might class themselves as deeply empathic and feminine, their interactions are 100% Drunk Middle Aged Man in Pub.

Two things.

1. Someone disagreeing with your opinions does not make them 'a troll'.

2. Shouting 'NO' at people is not an argument. In questions of how to arrange public policy to balance competing perspectives and experiences we need dialogue, discussion and debate. Not people shouting "NO" at each other.

I like the pub table analogy (or anywhere else a group of women are talking amongst themselves and some random bloke tries to barge into the conversation). I've found these threads full of advice and different takes really useful. There were lots of good tips I'll try to remember and I might be less naïve in future.

Well, quite. Because posters on FWR don’t have a ‘hive mind’.

Kind of obvious but if you find such responses annoying, you too have the choice as to whether to read or at least, give posts head space.

Agreed, @Tandora. It also doesn’t make them a man, a TRA, a plopper, mentally ill, unstable, stupid, an abuser, or a paedophile - all things I’ve been accused of at various times by posters from this board. I’m a middle-aged woman with 2 children and a DPhil posting in a different timezone (so that’s what makes it appear like plopping when it’s actually not).