TRA Trolls - can we just say NO?

[BlueEyedBogWitch]

A full thread of NO’s might be more powerful than trying to reason with someone who is not interested in reason.

Just one ‘NO’ each, until they get bored and go away. Every time.

After all, it sums up our arguments very succinctly.

A thread full of no's is just childish. If you accuse the TRA's of a no debate stance and then do that, then IMO you're as bad as them. There are plenty of people with intelligent responses to argue the other side so why not just leave it to them? Much better just to not give them the Reddit soundbites they're looking for.

I find troll hunters far more tedious than anything else.

I’ve become quite good at just jumping over our frequent flyers’ posts and carrying on with the rest of the conversation. This is not because I am trying to ignore challenges to my thinking, but because I am quite bored of the same debunked points and obvious manipulative attempts to make women feel guilty for not giving up their hard-won rights. It’s been over 10 years FGS - I don’t need to explain why clownfish aren’t a valid comparison yet again.

Yes, for most involved in these.discussions the basic points have been thoroughly discussed. But most people are not that involved.

Also, there are some incredibly witty women on these threads. Some of their ripostes to the obviously goady posters make me laugh out loud. Don't underestimate the power of humour in sad times.

Indeed. The beauty of civilised debate. Reason to treasure this board.

Well sure, and I’ve noticed that many of the people who are engaging are relatively new names - some may have name changed, but I think it’s pretty clear that awareness is rising and more women are hearing the maddest rationalisatioms for the first time. I am quite willing to let them push back on it, but I am finding my interest in doing the same has waned. I’ll keep pushing back at work and chilling into the crowdfunded for the ever-increasing number of employment tribunals.

But then that would place Mumsnet as a GC club. Is that what it is?

I thought it was a place where it allowed moderated debate to occur rather than a place that has said people who aren't GC are unwelcome to share their views on such matters.

I must say I'm rather bemused that someone would start a thread, the subject of which they know will be argued against by the greater majority of posters, the complain that they are the subject of bullying and a pile on.

If you post unsubstantiated mince, people are going to disagree with it.

You have to be joking.

You're a poster on FWR. Are you part of a hive mind?

I'm not calling for the removal of women's rights - I'm calling for understanding and support for trans people.

No, I don't expect to be subject to obscene personal abuse when engaging on the feminism board.

It is worrying that people seem to think all the moderation rules go out of the window and they can just personally attack people. It seems like they think Mumsnet supports them in this, too.

If the single sex provisions for female people cannot remain as being only for female people based on the sex class of their body, a categorisation that is unchangeable with time and is based on having a body formed around the production of large gametes (regardless of the production status of those gametes), that is the removal of those provisions for female people.

A theoretical discussion is all very nice, but the practical application is vital.

I've come on to this board on a handful of occasions. I'm broadly GC (a trans woman is not a woman) but tolerant of those few trans people I come across in real life. There are concessions that I'm happy to make for them, and concessions that I really DON'T want to be made for them.

But any post I've made on here that has given that impression, has been jumped on, because only being 100% in line with the 'everything trans is bad' vibe is acceptable here. There is no debate, and most threads are just a bunch of posters all agreeing with each other and ranting.

What should that support for trans identifying people look like in practice when it's set against the protection of rights, dignity and privacy for women and girls?

But this can I understand trans people if no one gives an explanation of what they are? Or decide to support or not without that explanation?

Blanket understanding and support is a hard no from me with nothing to base it on.

Tandora · Today 14:20

No, I don't expect to be subject to obscene personal abuse when engaging on the feminism board.

I have missed that. I disagree with you vehemently, but I support your right to post as you wish. Robust language and sarcasm etc are the norm here, but obscene personal abuse is completely wrong.

No.

No.

No.

Of course you're calling for the removal of women's rights when you insist that a man can change sex and become a woman and access all women spaces, sports etc. Just as insisting that little children who say they're the opposite sex must be trans, suggests that you're unconcerned about safeguarding children from age inappropriate concepts they're emotionally and intellectually incapable of navigating.

If you're on a board called Mumsnet arguing that young children really are trans, then you'll meet massive disapproval. Women like me who are
mothers, many of us LGB and with a lifetime of working with children and young people won't stop challenging these dangerous to children beliefs.

Nobody should be subject to obscene personal abuse. On here, MNHQ are usually prompt to deal with abusers and hopefully have taken action.

So its just posters that don't agree with you that are part of the hive mind

thank you for that

All personal attacks should be reported as should transphobia

personally i find the fact that our long standing Reddit visitors are allowed to come here repeating the same thing on an endless loop with ongoing goady threads for screenshots to be "not in the spirit" as MN says fucking annoying as arse with their tedium but they're still allowed to come and post, they're not banned.

f no one gives an explanation of what they are?

@FlirtsWithRhinos set up a thread to discuss what being trans is and why trans people should be accommodated in society. I have posted a response to this there as instructed.