A little piece of insight

[Tandora]

Into a topic so woefully misunderstood.

But for the purposes of the law in the U.K. it doesn’t matter what sex Dr Upton feels that Dr Upton is.

And Dr Upton and other trans people may well have terrible unspeakable trauma around that. I haven’t denied that.

But the law says they must be treated as their sex not their gender for the purposes of the Equality Act.

Why is that so problematic?

Dr Upton is a man. He can and will never be a woman.

It's all in his head, that's the point. Nobody else is required to believe or affirm what is in his head.

If he believes his spiritual essence to be female, he can, nobody else has to care. His spiritual essence does not require the same physical protections as those with female bodies, and if he unshakeably knows his essence to be female, it shouldn't make any difference if others don't externally validate it. What does he need that validation for?

Did you mean that for me?

A male body IS a characteristic.

Characteristic "a special quality or appearance that makes an individual or group different from others"

People with male bodies have the characteristic of having male bodies. One characteristic.

We can talk about the characteristics always found in male bodies, and the different characteristics normally associated with male bodies later if you want, but perhaps answer the first question first.

Oh, I'm going to give up on this thread. Tandora's arguments are so stupid they're just aggravating. It boils down to, "A trans person is whatever they say they are. And who are you to object?"

I'll answer you.

Do you think that you have said a single thing on this thread that the regulars on this board haven't heard a thousand times before, haven't considered in depth and haven't considered to be utter nonsense based on evidence and critical thinking?

Yes.

I don't think there has been any "consideration in depth", use of "evidence" or "critical thinking" going on from the vast majority of posters on this board. There's one or two exceptions of posters who are doing a little bit of this.

Do you not think that if there is anyone on this thread whose on the fence, they are become more sex realist with every single word you type?

I understand that you are deeply radicalised in your position and hearing me challenge it is therefore probably causing you to react with more force.

Have you heard of Operation Let Them Speak?

I've heard that phrase a lot, yes. I mostly find it very childish.

No I misread your name, apologies!

Basically, yes.

@Tandora please answer my question about how Dr Upton knows what treatment to prescribe for his patients? Does he treat them based on their gender identity or on their biology? Does he know the difference? If not, I would argue that Dr Upton is not fit to not be treating any patients.

This does seem to be the basic flaw in the argument. Whatever feeling he has he cannot attach the word 'female' to it because he has no reference point for 'feeling female'.

Yes, of course.

You can't know something that isn't true. (Although you can, of course, believe it.)

There may be some debate about exactly what knowledge is, but one thing all parties to that debate agree on is that "X knows that p" can only be true if p is true.

To believe is not the same as to know. Likewise thinking you know is different from knowing.

This simple fact about knowledge and truth is actually quite important in this arena.

With a lot of pseudoscience waffle attached.

What 'treatment' are you referring to? Can you give me an example?

Phew!! I was so confused.

Along with, ‘a trans woman can do whatever they want because they are trans’. A trans woman could walk up and punch someone unprovoked to the face and Tandora would find some excuse for it.

It’s boring and nonsensical now. Tandora needs to find a new hobby.

Giving Upton the benefit of the doubt that he does indeed feel what he claims (and I do have the doubt), he can only know that he is a biological male who doesn’t feel the way he personally thinks a biological male feels. His second hand experiences of women’s lives make him think he is somehow more aligned to women. Absent zealous gender identity ideology constructs, it really is as simple as that.

He knows he's a biological man though. He is a doctor after all.

Can you answer my question re my colposcopy please. TYVM.

So if they know what sex they are, what gives them the right to believe they can use spaces designated for the other sex?

I am sharing my experience, there is no need to be so rude and condescending.
I would never disregard a child’s feelings, did you cover that in your child development course?
The dismissive tone of your reply makes me hope that you do not work with children.

Oh don't be so silly.

I typed out a massive response. Just can't be arsed now.

For the record, no one is born in the "wrong body" (you might not be happy about it, it might feel wrong, that doesn't mean you get to redefine society or language to accommodate your feelings)

A person cannot know what it is like to be another person. Any other person. Of either sex. You might think you know what your best friend thinks or feels, because you know them well and can guess - it doesn't turn you into that best friend.

FFS

If a biological man who identifies as not a man says I think I'm going into labour/having a miscarriage how would Dr Up ton proceed?

I’m going to ask this question again, because it’s related.