A little piece of insight

[Tandora]

Into a topic so woefully misunderstood.

he's not a stupid person; he knows that,

Dr Upton is not a stupid person - she's a trans person, which means that she knows she is female, despite having physical characteristics which are usually associated with being male. This is what it is to be a trans woman.

Some of them are liars.
Some not liars, but are seriously mentally ill and have lost touch with reality.

@Taztoy I am so so sorry for what you have been through, and in awe of your courage.

Ive been following the whole thread, and am increasingly flabbergasted and outraged at the twisting of facts in @Tandora‘s attempts to justify why men’s feelings should matter more than women. I’ve also been following the NHS Fife case, with ‘special’ Dr Upton who is apparently a doctor who does not understand biology. I would love to pose the following question to Dr Upton or to anyone else who thinks biology doesn’t matter.

In childhood cancer, there has historically been a difference in the treatment protocol of acute lymphoblastic leukaemia (ALL) for boys and girls. Boys typically were given a longer treatment (3years+) than girls (2 years+) due to the risk of relapse in the testes. If Dr Upton was presented with a young trans identifying male (‘trans girl’), suffering from ALL, I wonder which treatment protocol he would have followed? The one for girls, because the child believed they were female, therefore medical treatment should match their identity, or the one for boys, based on biology and the higher chance the child would survive? How would he have known which protocol to give to maximise the child’s chance of survival? Or would that not have mattered as much as validating their special identity?

No, he knows he is a male. He knows he has XY chromosomes. You're either really stupid, or a troll or both.

How do you know what it is to be a transwoman? You keep telling us you are not one, and that we can't understand what they are because we are not one, so how can you be so confident?

Assuming this person is not a troll... Tandora is so nearly there. I wholeheartedly agree we shouldn't use one persons experience to decide how to treat everyone. So given that we cant know who will grow out of their feelings of distress and who will, a watch and wait approach is still the most appropriate for children.

You need to study the TRA dictionary.

Fact - whatever the hell comes out of my mouth at any given moment, to try to justify an incoherent misogynistic worldview.

I’m sorry you’ve been through it too.

I don’t even like cubicles in single sex changing - I choose to change out in the single sex communal area.

i have a right to say no. And for me, once you start to erode that no in one area, the danger is that it’s a slippery slope.

Dr Upton is not, as much as Dr Upton would like to be, a biological woman. And in the normal use of the word, if someone asks for a female doctor, Dr Upton should not attend.

And if I ask for a female doctor and a trans woman attends, I will not cope with that at all. And I will sue the arse off the hospital that allowed it.

The whole point of the law in many areas is that it seeks to balance competing rights. The Supreme Court have ruled on this.

and that’s it. Job done.

If Dr Upton and others wish to challenge that, in a court of law, or seek to get Parliament to pass a law that allows them to enter spaces not of their sex but the gender they present as, they should campaign for that change.

But at this point the law is clear and when I ask for a female clinician I should not be presented with a transwoman and told that they are female under the law. Because they’re not.

The physical charcteristic of "a male body" is a physical charcteristic that is 100% correlated with being male. In an adult a male body makes you a man.

No, he knows he is a male.

But she doesn't - that's the problem. You keep saying this - it isn't true. Dr Upton has told you herself, directly, under oath - she knows herself to be female. This is what she knows.

He knows he has XY chromosomes.

I don't think anyone knows what chromosomes Dr Upton has, but the overwhelming likelihood is that they are XY - yes. But knowing you have XY chromosomes, is not the same as knowing you are male. You can have XY chromosomes and know yourself to be female. This is true of trans women, as well as many women with differences in sex development.

You're either really stupid, or a troll or both.

So I'm stupid. Dr Upton is stupid. I'm a troll. Dr Upton is a liar....

All because you cannot understand or accept the reality of what it is to be a trans person.

First of all, you left out a very important "s" at the end of "characteristic". Why?

He can’t “know he is female”. He is male. He has no idea what “being female” would feel like.

If Upton is so certain in his inner knowledge of himself as female, why is he so insecure about anyone else suggesting they don't believe him? Why would his sense of self be threatened by using the spaces for male bodies, or both sexes, if it's only his inner essence that is female and it's strong and definite and requires no external validation?

How do you know what it is to be a transwoman? You keep telling us you are not one, and that we can't understand what they are because we are not one, so how can you be so confident?

Great question. How about answering it @Tandora ?

And no, he isn’t stupid. He’s a narcissist IMO, high on his own supply. When you’ve known people with NPD, you recognise the tells.

@Tandora if I ask for a female clinician for a colonoscopy and dr Upton turns up and performs that colonoscopy, has Dr Upton overridden my no, my non-consent? Would Dr Upton have carried out an assault upon me in those circumstances?

Dr. Upton can believe DU is female. I have no problems with that. But, unless DU is exceedingly dim in this regard, DU must know that most people, and most patients, will view DU as male. DU needs to understand that and take it into account. Only a very dim or very narcissistic person would fail to do so.

Indeed.

The heart of the matter.

I am pretty sure you've not answered a single question or adressed any point I have made, but I'll try again with another question or two.

Do you think that you have said a single thing on this thread that the regulars on this board haven't heard a thousand times before, haven't considered in depth and haven't considered to be utter nonsense based on evidence and critical thinking?

Do you not think that if there is anyone on this thread whose on the fence, they are become more sex realist with every single word you type?

Have you heard of Operation Let Them Speak? Could you please take your arguments to the streets where they will be a more effective tool to counter gender ideology?

He can’t “know he is female”.

Except she can, and she does.

This is the reality of her experience. This is what she knows.

You can keep saying it's impossible, she can't, she's a liar, I'm an idiot, a troll, a bogus 'social scientist', a sickening and despicable human..

Or you can listen to what you are being told about the reality of someone else's experience. You can listen without judgement, without assumption, without projection, and hear what they are telling you about what is happening in their head.

SEVEN!

To the extent I take any of your claims as fact, I think most of us realised that you’re not a biologist or a chemistry professor.

she knows she is female, despite having physical characteristics which are usually associated with being male. This is what it is to be a trans woman.

Dr. Upton knows that Dr. Upton has the physical characteristics of being male.
That is the thing that matters.
Dr. Upton 'knowing' (in error) that Dr. Upton is female is utterly irrelevant to everyone else.
Society, especially women, are concerned with Dr. Upton's physiology, not psychology.

(With the caveat that most transwomen retain male psychology in their attitudes, sense of entitlement, propensity to violence, and sexual offending rates, so psychology is not irrelevant. However, it is not clear how many of these violent entitled transwomen actually have AGP and not dysphoria - I will be happy to consider evidence that those with dysphoria don't have typical male psychology.)

I didn’t say those things about you, don’t put words into my mouth.