A little piece of insight

[Tandora]

Into a topic so woefully misunderstood.

Men are men no matter how they 'identify.

A woman who enters into a designated single sex space has every right to expect that that space is reserved only for other members of her sex. A man who intrudes is breaching boundaries and has not requested the consent of the women within.

The wrong sex space, yes. It's illegal, inappropriate, wrong, gaslighty, predatory and non consensual. But you're seriously comparing a man with his dick cut off to a woman, so...

That is what unisex spaces and facilities are for.

No, but i do think that they are all men. And some most definitely are predatory, or else self centring and/or narcissitic with a fetish.

You've never had to hide fear from a man, have you?

Besides, the number of lantern jawed hulks telling us they totally pass and no women ever say anything...

Just because a man/male person has "tried hard" it doesn't mean he is rewarded with access to female only facilities which exist for a reason. A good reason

Yup. But it is also true that not all men are predatory, just as not all men are bald, not all men are mathematicians, not all men are six foot three, not all men follow the footie....

It is even true that not all transwomen are deliberately predatory or predatory by inclination, and one at least was horrified when I pointed out to him that the mere act of using the women's lavatories made him a predator. He simply had not thought of this, because he knew that wasn't what he intended at all.

Then I hope they all have a lovely time together in a mixed sex space.

What's the objection to an additional unisex space? It means there is something appropriate for everyone and everyone gets two options.

Will Tan or the other guy say it out loud?

In most cases the distress doesn't go away though. Because gender dysphoria was only ever a symptom of some other problem that remains.

Many transistioned people find that it actually makes them feel worse in the longer term as they realise nothing has really changed for them. And they haven't actually changed sex either.
Hormones and surgery are not the answer. They never were.

Ask our regular poster KeepToiletsSafe...

Yes, this is why the sweet-spot for suicide amongst trans identifying individuals is actually 2 years post surgical intervention… not in response to not being affirmed or denied access to treatment.

Irrelevant. Some are, we all know that. But even if none were predators, they are still men and they still don't belong in women's spaces.

I came here to be enlightened… only to find it’s the same old manipulative garbage.

If a 6 yr old is hurting… you don’t hurt them more by chopping off their body parts and sterilising them then lying to them saying they’ve actually changed sex. EVEN IF THE 6YR OLD WANTED YOU TOO. BECAUSE HE/SHE IS 6. If you did that’s child abuse - which OP is clearly up for.

Probably not if they have a dissociative disorder. It's not that different than a freeze response except the body keeps moving and reacting as if everything is normal. The whole point is to look normal while inside you are freaking out or sometimes have "left" completely.

This also happens to many ppl w complex PTSD: they often cognitively realize that someone/something is probably safe but they still feel terror, have flashbacks to terrifying experiences, etc. They react as if the person is their abuser even when they cognitively realize that is not the case. (But, from personal experience, there is a reason that I react to this particular person that way. Sometimes it's physical appearance but more often it's bc they are doing something creepy and that is what sets off my CPTSD.)

Both are common responses for ppl who were chronically abused as children, esp sexual abuse. So no, unless you are familiar with dissociative disorders or CPTSD and are being very observant of the distressed person, there is a very good chance that you would not realize that they're distressed. (Their mental illness was designed to mask this from the outside world.) Yet they are often terrified and may have flashbacks, have physical symptoms, and feel terror for hours or days bc of the encounter. I do when I see a man (trans or not) in a public toilet.

Cry all you want. The answer is still no. What we used to say to 6 year old, and what we need to say to these man-babies

"You don't need to ask women if they're scared of me. Just ask ME!"

Once again, for those regurgitating arguments from circa 2010...

I don't care if you don't like it.
I don't care if you think it's 'not nice'.
I don't care if you would be happy with it.
I don't care if it hurts men's feelz.

The answer is NO.

Please realise that you have awoken a monolith and the more you push this, the bigger the pushback will be.

Nobody who is biologically male can "experience" being a woman, no matter how hard they think they do. Woman is not an experience, it's a physical fact.

Many people, apparently, are happy to play make-believe with trans-identifying men, but I'm not. For people with genuine distress about their sex, I have sympathy. But that doesn't change facts. Does saying so make me hard-hearted? Maybe. If you think so, you'll have to suck it up, not me.

I'm waiting for...

And a lot of the time it's bullshit.

As I say the narrative my brother made up doesn't resemble reality. It's a retrospective rewriting to suit adulthood.

He would admit he didn't really remember much before age 8 too. (I, on the other hand, remember bits and pieces from age 2 and up).

I'm older.

It will never cease to amaze me just how judgemental people are and how incapable they are of thinking outside of their own narrow assumptions and experience.

I wonder how much of this is innate capacity and how much down to the failures of the education system?

For me this is always a line that shows someone is not debating in good faith. It is very easy to see that excluding men from women's spaces doesn't imply that all men are predators, e.g., TW's refusal to use the appropriate sex facilities is in largely justified from the perspective that 'some' men are unsafe for TW to be around, i.e. they're very familiar with the concept of collective segregation based on the risk of some of the male sex.

Thus, this arguments points to cognitive dissonance and inability to grasp that TWANW in all respects and in all contexts.

If a 6 yr old is hurting… you don’t hurt them more by chopping off their body parts and sterilising them then lying to them saying they’ve actually changed sex. EVEN IF THE 6YR OLD WANTED YOU TOO. BECAUSE HE/SHE IS 6. If you did that’s child abuse - which OP is clearly up for.

to be clear you are being nuts- there is nobody who is "up for" anything like this.