A little piece of insight

[Tandora]

Into a topic so woefully misunderstood.

I am a victim of a very violent rape and sexual assault.

I cannot be in a space where a man is outside a door that I am in such as a cubicle in a toilet.

I therefore choose to use the single sex changing space.

I do not want to be naked in the presence of a male bodied person.

I don’t care if they are trans or not, they are not allowed in the single sex spaces .

Not every man is a predator but none of them should be in female single sex spaces

If a biological man is trying to enter a female only space then yes HE is a predator.

No, she's saying that only she can consent to having sex with someone else.
Nobody else can consent on her behalf.

If that person doesn’t look different to any other man or woman and no one is distressed by their presence, I don’t see the issue

You might not, but we do.

And in any case, they never pass. We can always tell. Even the ones who think they pass do not. So they do look different.

Also - how do you know if Person A is distressed by the presence of Person B?

Wouldn’t you know if someone was distressed in your presence?

@Tandora - it was good to link it to hearing voices and schizophrenia - trans identifying people are suffering from a mental illness and have to be diagnosed as such to get a gender recognition certificate. You need to be diagnosed with gender dysphoria. They are in mental distress.

Where things went awry is we started supporting the delusion that they could change their biological sex. It’s like treating schizophrenia by pretending we can also hear the voices. Playing along with the mental illness doesn’t address the underlying problem - it widens and amplifies the mental illness. ‘Gender affirming’ treatment makes people sicker.

If people have bodily integrity disorder and want limbs removed - no one agrees that’s wise to do. They say you are unwell and we won’t do surgery on a healthy body. The Dr who had his limbs removed got jailed (for fraud) but still no one thought you brave and stunning person for getting surgery to address your mental illness. But you want your boobs chopped off and some arm skin rolled and stiched to your labia - well @Tandora it seems yay 😀 go for it. I can’t tell the difference - but I am sure you can explain.

No. But I believe that predatory men ought not to be encouraged to use men who are trans as cover for their behaviour.

I would, but why would the experiment have to be made though?

Just keep men out.

All men.

Apparently it doesn’t matter if the girls and women don’t understand they are in a space with a male who doesn’t respect female people’s needs. Because those male people who choose to transgress female people’s boundaries should be included in female people’s spaces.

Despite the very nature of the complete disrespect of those male people in the entering a space that some female people need to be single sex in the first place.

I don't see why any of this 'they're so upset / you need to hear them' is in any way relevant to the fact that males need to keep out of female spaces. If trans-identified males want to be treated as different from other males, they and their allies need to spend their time, energy and money fighting for third spaces. Because crikey they seem to have a lot of energy to keep on and on and on about their alleged vulnerability and how they can't do sport (they can), or pee anywhere (they can) or whatever. So much energy.
Honestly, they just need to argue their specialness differently and keep in their lane. They're male, not female. End of.

Not necessarily, if she had been taught over several years that showing her distress would get her attacked by a man.

Not if the were conditioned to hide it. And not if the girl or women substituted their distress reaction with another reaction.

Fawning is a common one.

We have all too many male people who have come and told us they never have had anyone react negatively. Ever.

By the time they’re there and I’m distressed it is too late for me. I’m already in a cptsd panic attack dissociative state and I’ll be in hysterics. It’s happened.

The law says they are not allowed. Why is that so hard to understand?

It’s the men’s inclination that matters.

<sarcasm>

TW are men and like all men, we have no idea whether they're a predator or not so we keep them out because they're men not because they're trans

Taztoy
Why is that so hard to understand?

If someone is determined not to understand something, it isn't all that hard for them to not-understand it.

Maybe, but a vague and poorly defined dysphoric psychological state is not an identity...it is a maladaptation. In that respect nobody " is trans".

By the way, has the OP changed board-name, or are they tag-teaming?

I think any man who knowingly enters into a female only facility is an intruder, for certain, and possibly predatory, at worst.

Who was it who said "honest men stay out so dishonest men stand out"?

Gender dysphoria is not a condition or a disorder in its own right. It is a SYMPTOM. It can be caused by a number of different issues. This is why transitioning DOESN'T cure it for most people. Finding and dealing with the actual problem is the only way forward. But instead we have affirmation and "treatment" for being "trans" and no proper investigation as to why a person feels this way.
That we are doing this to literal CHILDREN is unforgivable.

But I know you won't hear me - or any of the other posters on this forum who have articulated this better than I have in many cases. Your fingers are firmly in your ears and only you know why that is.

Not personally. The law is. Single sex spaces, services and facilities exist for good reason. They are designated for use only by persons of that sex, and that is protected by various laws, rules and regulations.

That's not an answer. It's a non-answer answer. Try again.

Actually there are some men who get off on women's discomfort or distress; and others who are so self absorbed they do not even notice what others around them are feeling.