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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JK on Emma Watson

1000 replies

Lowarnes · 29/09/2025 13:08

A stunningly perfect response to Watson’s recent comments. Haven’t seen a thread on this so thought I’d post below:

”I'm seeing quite a bit of comment about this, so I want to make a couple of points.

I'm not owed eternal agreement from any actor who once played a character I created. The idea is as ludicrous as me checking with the boss I had when I was twenty-one for what opinions I should hold these days.

Emma Watson and her co-stars have every right to embrace gender identity ideology. Such beliefs are legally protected, and I wouldn't want to see any of them threatened with loss of work, or violence, or death, because of them.

However, Emma and Dan in particular have both made it clear over the last few years that they think our former professional association gives them a particular right - nay, obligation - to critique me and my views in public. Years after they finished acting in Potter, they continue to assume the role of de facto spokespeople for the world I created.

When you've known people since they were ten years old it's hard to shake a certain protectiveness. Until quite recently, I hadn't managed to throw off the memory of children who needed to be gently coaxed through their dialogue in a big scary film studio. For the past few years, I've repeatedly declined invitations from journalists to comment on Emma specifically, most notably on the Witch Trials of JK Rowling. Ironically, I told the producers that I didn't want her to be hounded as the result of anything I said.

The television presenter in the attached clip highlights Emma's 'all witches' speech, and in truth, that was a turning point for me, but it had a postscript that hurt far more than the speech itself. Emma asked someone to pass on a handwritten note from her to me, which contained the single sentence 'I'm so sorry for what you're going through' (she has my phone number). This was back when the death, rape and torture threats against me were at their peak, at a time when my personal security measures had had to be tightened considerably and I was constantly worried for my family's safety. Emma had just publicly poured more petrol on the flames, yet thought a one line expression of concern from her would reassure me of her fundamental sympathy and kindness.

Like other people who've never experienced adult life uncushioned by wealth and fame, Emma has so little experience of real life she's ignorant of how ignorant she is. She'll never need a homeless shelter. She's never going to be placed on a mixed sex public hospital ward. I'd be astounded if she's been in a high street changing room since childhood. Her 'public bathroom' is single occupancy and comes with a security man standing guard outside the door. Has she had to strip off in a newly mixed-sex changing room at a council-run swimming pool? Is she ever likely to need a state-run rape crisis centre that refuses to guarantee an all-female service? To find herself sharing a prison cell with a male rapist who's identified into the women's prison?

I wasn't a multimillionaire at fourteen. I lived in poverty while writing the book that made Emma famous. I therefore understand from my own life experience what the trashing of women's rights in which Emma has so enthusiastically participated means to women and girls without her privileges.

The greatest irony here is that, had Emma not decided in her most recent interview to declare that she loves and treasures me - a change of tack I suspect she's adopted because she's noticed full-throated condemnation of me is no longer quite as fashionable as it was - I might never have been this honest.

Adults can't expect to cosy up to an activist movement that regularly calls for a friend's assassination, then assert their right to the former friend's love, as though the friend was in fact their mother. Emma is rightly free to disagree with me and indeed to discuss her feelings about me in public - but I have the same right, and I've finally decided to exercise it.”

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
BunfightBetty · 30/09/2025 14:59

AnSolas · 30/09/2025 14:29

Guess why women are not included in the hate crime data?

Research included
● verbal abuse,
● threatening behaviour,
● physical assault,
● sexual assault.

What do you think the police in Scotland would be doing all day every day if JKR had the legal right to log the threats she gets on a daily basis?

Saying a pipe bomb should be sent to her home?
Muppets turning up at her home and trying to get others to do the same?

Do you actually think that if hate crime reporting included hate crimes against women that there any woman on this thread who have not encountered verbal abuse or threatening behaviours just because they are women?

Quite. If you were to poll women it would be 100% having experienced harassment, violence, abuse, assault.

Nobody gives a shit, though, because we're not men.

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 30/09/2025 15:02

SionnachRuadh · 30/09/2025 14:51

I used to work with a lad who made peppermint Aero cheesecake. I fancy a slice right now.

I’ve always been a pretty agreeable person, not much given to revenge (probably because I’m a laydee under @Howseitgoin ’s ‘personality test’ method of determining sex)

but if revenge tastes like peppermint aero cheesecake I shall be reassessing my approach

recipe??

fetachocolate · 30/09/2025 15:04

GoldThumb · 30/09/2025 14:06

I don’t understand why people are not getting why JKR is upset with EW.

EW made her speech, and it blew up.
It was reported on widely, with people assuming it was a dig a JKR (Bar one).

If you were EW, and people were hi fiving you online for a ‘bar one’ comment, and using this to justifying abusing JKR, would you

a) State clearly for the record, ‘I didn’t say bar one’
b) say nothing and let people run with it, knowing they believed it
c) say nothing, and let people run with it, knowing they believed it, and also send a sly note to JKR saying ‘sorry for what you’re going through’.
d) c but with added please donate to mermaids links.

I’d be pissed as well. I think an interview a few years later hoping I still loved her, while she tried to love me, would tip me over the edge of ‘dignified silence’

She trying to run with both the hares and the hounds.

I don’t think JKR is calling her ungrateful, she’s calling her two faced

Because they are ill informed and lack emotional intelligence.

SionnachRuadh · 30/09/2025 15:07

BernardBlacksMolluscs · 30/09/2025 15:02

I’ve always been a pretty agreeable person, not much given to revenge (probably because I’m a laydee under @Howseitgoin ’s ‘personality test’ method of determining sex)

but if revenge tastes like peppermint aero cheesecake I shall be reassessing my approach

recipe??

I wish I knew the recipe! There must be something online.

ThatCyanCat · 30/09/2025 15:10

Perhaps while Hows is asking ChatGPT for his next response, he could get it to throw us a recipe? I don't really like ChatGPT, it's too perky for me.

Ihatetomatoes · 30/09/2025 15:12

Lowarnes · 29/09/2025 13:08

A stunningly perfect response to Watson’s recent comments. Haven’t seen a thread on this so thought I’d post below:

”I'm seeing quite a bit of comment about this, so I want to make a couple of points.

I'm not owed eternal agreement from any actor who once played a character I created. The idea is as ludicrous as me checking with the boss I had when I was twenty-one for what opinions I should hold these days.

Emma Watson and her co-stars have every right to embrace gender identity ideology. Such beliefs are legally protected, and I wouldn't want to see any of them threatened with loss of work, or violence, or death, because of them.

However, Emma and Dan in particular have both made it clear over the last few years that they think our former professional association gives them a particular right - nay, obligation - to critique me and my views in public. Years after they finished acting in Potter, they continue to assume the role of de facto spokespeople for the world I created.

When you've known people since they were ten years old it's hard to shake a certain protectiveness. Until quite recently, I hadn't managed to throw off the memory of children who needed to be gently coaxed through their dialogue in a big scary film studio. For the past few years, I've repeatedly declined invitations from journalists to comment on Emma specifically, most notably on the Witch Trials of JK Rowling. Ironically, I told the producers that I didn't want her to be hounded as the result of anything I said.

The television presenter in the attached clip highlights Emma's 'all witches' speech, and in truth, that was a turning point for me, but it had a postscript that hurt far more than the speech itself. Emma asked someone to pass on a handwritten note from her to me, which contained the single sentence 'I'm so sorry for what you're going through' (she has my phone number). This was back when the death, rape and torture threats against me were at their peak, at a time when my personal security measures had had to be tightened considerably and I was constantly worried for my family's safety. Emma had just publicly poured more petrol on the flames, yet thought a one line expression of concern from her would reassure me of her fundamental sympathy and kindness.

Like other people who've never experienced adult life uncushioned by wealth and fame, Emma has so little experience of real life she's ignorant of how ignorant she is. She'll never need a homeless shelter. She's never going to be placed on a mixed sex public hospital ward. I'd be astounded if she's been in a high street changing room since childhood. Her 'public bathroom' is single occupancy and comes with a security man standing guard outside the door. Has she had to strip off in a newly mixed-sex changing room at a council-run swimming pool? Is she ever likely to need a state-run rape crisis centre that refuses to guarantee an all-female service? To find herself sharing a prison cell with a male rapist who's identified into the women's prison?

I wasn't a multimillionaire at fourteen. I lived in poverty while writing the book that made Emma famous. I therefore understand from my own life experience what the trashing of women's rights in which Emma has so enthusiastically participated means to women and girls without her privileges.

The greatest irony here is that, had Emma not decided in her most recent interview to declare that she loves and treasures me - a change of tack I suspect she's adopted because she's noticed full-throated condemnation of me is no longer quite as fashionable as it was - I might never have been this honest.

Adults can't expect to cosy up to an activist movement that regularly calls for a friend's assassination, then assert their right to the former friend's love, as though the friend was in fact their mother. Emma is rightly free to disagree with me and indeed to discuss her feelings about me in public - but I have the same right, and I've finally decided to exercise it.”

Eloquent as ever. Imagine receiving rape and death threats for merely standing up for women.

BunfightBetty · 30/09/2025 15:12

WinterTrees · 30/09/2025 13:30

Any feminist who doesn't tow the party line on any of these feminist boards gets hounded out.

That 'party line' thing always puzzles me. There's no party line, but we are a group of (mostly) women with broadly common principles who have been given a space here - when none was available anywhere else - to discuss them.

The numerous, frequent posters who come here to make a counter-argument don't get 'hounded out' (what would that even look like?) but they do get robustly challenged. If that's exhausting for them that's not for the feminists here to solve.

Absolutely. There's no 'hounding out' - how would that even work?

There most definitely is robust challenge and discussion. As there should be.

In my experience, the posters who complain about being hounded out or shouted down are the posters who make an assertion that they're then asked to back up with facts and evidence, only to find they can't. But instead of having the intellectual honesty and emotional courage to then reassess their position and admit they were wrong, they start refusing to answer direct questions and instead go to ad hominem attacks or complaints about tone, Bananarama, etc.

It's quite childish.

CautiousLurker01 · 30/09/2025 15:13

TheKeatingFive · 30/09/2025 13:50

And the massive smirk afterwards.

But none so blind as those who will not see.

Tbf I’ve just watched this on a 100inch screen, full volume and agree she actually says ‘by the way’, but it still seems to be a dig at JKR. Who are ALL the witches? Am inferring, as EW never clarified, she meant the female ones and the male ones who think they’re female?

ThatCyanCat · 30/09/2025 15:19

People quite literally come here because they know it's largely GC. Then they complain that it's largely GC and nobody wants to buy what they're selling.

Obviously, they come because each one of them thinks that they will be the one to outsmart us, leave us stuttering and silenced and defeated, ready to meekly accept that women can have knobs. Except none of them ever do, since it's patently not true, and then we get accusations of echo chamber, bigotry, silencing and hounding people and whatever it is Hows is doing now.

hydriotaphia · 30/09/2025 15:22

Have not RTFT but I must say that when I saw a news article on this I thought JKR came across as pretty petty. I don't get what EW is supposed to have done wrong apart from disagree with JKR? I feel that EW was just as entitled as JKR to express her views, and while the "all witches" comment may have hurt JKR's feelings, it was in no way abusive or disrespectful. As for EW sending a note rather than a text, I assume this was because she wanted to send good wishes without opening a dialogue (and possibly without letting JKR have her number). Again, although I do understand why JKR might be upset at this, I also feel that EW was within her rights to make this decision. I assume this was after JKR had publicly criticised EW so I can understand not wanting to get into a back and forth. EW may also (rightly or wrong) have been worried about her own safety and not wanted to give her mobile number out to JKR for that reason. I think that no matter the rights and wrongs of their opinions, JKR is the only one who has been hostile in this disagreement.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 30/09/2025 15:25

BunfightBetty · 30/09/2025 15:12

Absolutely. There's no 'hounding out' - how would that even work?

There most definitely is robust challenge and discussion. As there should be.

In my experience, the posters who complain about being hounded out or shouted down are the posters who make an assertion that they're then asked to back up with facts and evidence, only to find they can't. But instead of having the intellectual honesty and emotional courage to then reassess their position and admit they were wrong, they start refusing to answer direct questions and instead go to ad hominem attacks or complaints about tone, Bananarama, etc.

It's quite childish.

Exactly this.

If you’re going to wander onto a feminism forum with views that go against science and logic and you back an ideology that potentially harms women, be prepared to back said views and claims up. Don’t act all surprised when the majority present you with evidence and experience to the contrary which you then claim is you being ‘hounded out’.

Just back up what you say, it’s quite simple.

Footballrubytree · 30/09/2025 15:27

I doubt JKR has ever had to do any of the things she listed either.

ThatCyanCat · 30/09/2025 15:28

hydriotaphia · 30/09/2025 15:22

Have not RTFT but I must say that when I saw a news article on this I thought JKR came across as pretty petty. I don't get what EW is supposed to have done wrong apart from disagree with JKR? I feel that EW was just as entitled as JKR to express her views, and while the "all witches" comment may have hurt JKR's feelings, it was in no way abusive or disrespectful. As for EW sending a note rather than a text, I assume this was because she wanted to send good wishes without opening a dialogue (and possibly without letting JKR have her number). Again, although I do understand why JKR might be upset at this, I also feel that EW was within her rights to make this decision. I assume this was after JKR had publicly criticised EW so I can understand not wanting to get into a back and forth. EW may also (rightly or wrong) have been worried about her own safety and not wanted to give her mobile number out to JKR for that reason. I think that no matter the rights and wrongs of their opinions, JKR is the only one who has been hostile in this disagreement.

I don't get what EW is supposed to have done wrong apart from disagree with JKR?

Then read the original tweet. It is so, so, so not about merely disagreeing with JKR. How much plainer can she be?

As for EW sending a note rather than a text, I assume this was because she wanted to send good wishes without opening a dialogue (and possibly without letting JKR have her number).

Well that's just a horrid thing to do! To send a message intentionally not wanting a response or to hear what the other person has to say about it - and it being a supposed goodwill message? Clearly there's no goodwill if (generic) you don't want any actual exchange, you just want to feel like a good person without doing any thinking or hard work on whether or not you actually are. And right after a public dig? Sure, Watson has the right to carry out this kind of self serving, transmit-only communication in that it's not illegal, but she can't expect JKR to go along with her idea of what kind of person this makes her. And JKR still said nothing about it until Watson did it again: a curated kind of communication designed only to massage her image, nothing to do with the person she claims to love.

hydriotaphia · 30/09/2025 15:33

ThatCyanCat · 30/09/2025 15:28

I don't get what EW is supposed to have done wrong apart from disagree with JKR?

Then read the original tweet. It is so, so, so not about merely disagreeing with JKR. How much plainer can she be?

As for EW sending a note rather than a text, I assume this was because she wanted to send good wishes without opening a dialogue (and possibly without letting JKR have her number).

Well that's just a horrid thing to do! To send a message intentionally not wanting a response or to hear what the other person has to say about it - and it being a supposed goodwill message? Clearly there's no goodwill if (generic) you don't want any actual exchange, you just want to feel like a good person without doing any thinking or hard work on whether or not you actually are. And right after a public dig? Sure, Watson has the right to carry out this kind of self serving, transmit-only communication in that it's not illegal, but she can't expect JKR to go along with her idea of what kind of person this makes her. And JKR still said nothing about it until Watson did it again: a curated kind of communication designed only to massage her image, nothing to do with the person she claims to love.

I did read JKR's tweet. I don't feel she has identified anything that EW has done wrong, apart from express her views.

I also don't agree that EW "owed" it to JKR to enter into a conversation with her. No one "owes" that to anyone. If you have publicly fallen out with someone (JKR did criticise EW after the 'all witches" tweet I believe) then I think sending a card rather than a text is a perfectly normal and civil decision to make. Also, JKR does fund many GC-causes. Rightly or wrongly, EW may not have felt safe letting her have her number.

ThatCyanCat · 30/09/2025 15:38

hydriotaphia · 30/09/2025 15:33

I did read JKR's tweet. I don't feel she has identified anything that EW has done wrong, apart from express her views.

I also don't agree that EW "owed" it to JKR to enter into a conversation with her. No one "owes" that to anyone. If you have publicly fallen out with someone (JKR did criticise EW after the 'all witches" tweet I believe) then I think sending a card rather than a text is a perfectly normal and civil decision to make. Also, JKR does fund many GC-causes. Rightly or wrongly, EW may not have felt safe letting her have her number.

Well I think if you're terrified of a woman having your phone number, you might be sympathetic to how she's feeling with an army of perverted men threatening to kill and rape her, and possibly be moved to say something about it, or at least not fan the flames by digging at her in public and then grinning in the resulting adulation. I'd also wonder why you wanted to send her good wishes at all if you think she can't be trusted to have your phone number and you don't think you've any duty to hear what she has to say in response. It's unlike any loving, well wishing friend I've ever known.

buffyajp · 30/09/2025 15:44

Footballrubytree · 30/09/2025 15:27

I doubt JKR has ever had to do any of the things she listed either.

Except she absolutely has as well as suffering domestic violence. All provable facts. I’m sure she will lose no sleep over your ‘doubt’.

SirBasil · 30/09/2025 15:44

Tandora · 30/09/2025 12:55

This kind of thing:

"Especially since trans is the most powerful, most privileged and most protected sacred caste out"

Judge Judy Eye Roll GIF

As i said before (although I'm not sure which generation you belong to)

There is, currently, a whole cohort of people who use words and they don't know what they mean. The humpty-dumptyisation of language so that whatever a sex realist person says it is "wah wah wah TRANSPHOBIA wah wah wah" becuase you are unable to grasp simple definitions.

Men can't be women. They can have (and i wish they wouldn't) ghastly, not always safe or satisfactory, drastic surgery to become a poor facsimile of a woman. But they do not change sex.

hydriotaphia · 30/09/2025 15:45

I think we will have to agree to disagree. I feel that EW was within her rights to express her views. She is associated with the Harry Potter franchise, which had in turn become associated with JKR's GC views, and since EW did not share those views I do not think it was gratuitous of her to let the world know this. That is how I saw that "all witches" comment - she was distancing herself from JKR's GC views. She did not insult JKR or say anything disrespectful to her. She just made clear she disagreed. And afterwards sent a note making clear she did not agree with public hounding of JKR. I don't see that she did anything wrong, and I definitely don't agree that she was wrong not to have a text exchange with someone who had recently criticised her on twitter when she didn't feel comfortable doing so. I also wouldn't give my phone number to a political activist with opposing political views to me, tbh.

TheKeatingFive · 30/09/2025 15:47

Footballrubytree · 30/09/2025 15:27

I doubt JKR has ever had to do any of the things she listed either.

She fled her marriage because of domestic violence. She had nothing at that point.

That's the key point here. She actually gets what it would be like to be in that situation. Rather than the privileged girlies going round shouting TWAW, who have never had to contemplate it.

hydriotaphia · 30/09/2025 15:47

Also, I don't think EW was claiming to be JKR's friend. Obviously they weren't friends! JKR was retweeting parodies of EW's "all witches" speech. If EW had been JKR's friend I would agree a text might have been in order, however at that stage she wasn't, she was a former colleague whom JKR was herself criticising on twitter.

SirBasil · 30/09/2025 15:50

Tandora · 30/09/2025 13:29

you are aware that the overwhelming majority of assault and homovide victims in the uk are male according to police recorded/ justice systems data right? Do you conclude from this that violence against women/ girls isn't a problem, gender based violence doesn't happen? women are more safe and privileged in society than men? You simply have no understanding of the administrative data, its context or how to analyse / interpret it.

2 women a week mate

2 women a week. Every week. Week in. Week out.

Now if men who think they were women, really were women they would be as outraged at this as women are. And they would be talking about it.

They aren't though. Because they aren't women and they don't care.

TheKeatingFive · 30/09/2025 15:50

hydriotaphia · 30/09/2025 15:45

I think we will have to agree to disagree. I feel that EW was within her rights to express her views. She is associated with the Harry Potter franchise, which had in turn become associated with JKR's GC views, and since EW did not share those views I do not think it was gratuitous of her to let the world know this. That is how I saw that "all witches" comment - she was distancing herself from JKR's GC views. She did not insult JKR or say anything disrespectful to her. She just made clear she disagreed. And afterwards sent a note making clear she did not agree with public hounding of JKR. I don't see that she did anything wrong, and I definitely don't agree that she was wrong not to have a text exchange with someone who had recently criticised her on twitter when she didn't feel comfortable doing so. I also wouldn't give my phone number to a political activist with opposing political views to me, tbh.

Of course a snarky, public remark was disrespectful. What kind of moral code do you live by?

And the note was utterly hypocritical.

You don't get to fan the flames against the woman receiving death threats on the one hand, for the SM affirmation and then pretend to care by trying to engage privately, when no one can see her.

TheKeatingFive · 30/09/2025 15:52

hydriotaphia · 30/09/2025 15:47

Also, I don't think EW was claiming to be JKR's friend. Obviously they weren't friends! JKR was retweeting parodies of EW's "all witches" speech. If EW had been JKR's friend I would agree a text might have been in order, however at that stage she wasn't, she was a former colleague whom JKR was herself criticising on twitter.

She was bleating on about all the 'love she had in her heart' for her. So how are we supposed to interpret that.

All she ever had to do was say she didn't agree and leave it at that.

AnSolas · 30/09/2025 15:53

Horsie · 30/09/2025 13:58

Re. your second paragraph, I'm sorry but I'm finding the way you express yourself pretty confusing.

What sleight of hand? And, you're saying that people are saying that transwomen (I take it that's what you mean by transpeople the men) suddenly can't use male toilets? I really don't mean to wind you up, but I can't make head or tail of your second para.

No problem,

Yes the "no debate" was that
● a subset of males were women and should be in womens single sex spaces
● a subset of females were men and should be in mens single sex spaces.

Then that the trans IDing men were not safe in MSSS and must be in WSSS.

The funny circular position was:
TIMs are women
TiMs must be safe
TIMs are women and in danger in MSSS
WSSS are safe
Women must BeKind and allow TIMs in.
Women who objected to the newly mixed sex spaces were not safe to be around.
Women must be excluded from TIM&WSSS
Therefore "TIM excluding WSSS" must be provided and used by these dangerous women.

Funny is it not how its women who will end up needing to do the work to create these "new" 4th spaces?

And the unspoken (and ignored) bit was that TIFs were supposedly safely using these "unsafe" MSSS so there was never a "need" or activism to provide safe services for this 50% of transpeople.

Now "suddenly" when the UK SC said men need to use the mens the media and TRA have changed the language again and the term "transwomen" has been replaced by "transpeople".

And that means claiming that "transpeople" are being excluded from SSS can ignore that neither sex ever had a right to access the SSS of the other sex

DontCallMeLenYouLittleBollix · 30/09/2025 15:54

hydriotaphia · 30/09/2025 15:45

I think we will have to agree to disagree. I feel that EW was within her rights to express her views. She is associated with the Harry Potter franchise, which had in turn become associated with JKR's GC views, and since EW did not share those views I do not think it was gratuitous of her to let the world know this. That is how I saw that "all witches" comment - she was distancing herself from JKR's GC views. She did not insult JKR or say anything disrespectful to her. She just made clear she disagreed. And afterwards sent a note making clear she did not agree with public hounding of JKR. I don't see that she did anything wrong, and I definitely don't agree that she was wrong not to have a text exchange with someone who had recently criticised her on twitter when she didn't feel comfortable doing so. I also wouldn't give my phone number to a political activist with opposing political views to me, tbh.

Where EW really took the piss is her decision to rake everything up in a public interview, bringing her relationship with JKR to public attention once again without having sought or received permission, and thus ensuring that it was going to become something that would be in JKRs face whether she wanted it to be or not. She put her in a position whether she had to either ignore the interview or comment on it, and would receive a fresh stream of criticism for each. All because EW wanted to portray their relationship and her actions in the way she deemed most beneficial to herself.

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