Trans people frightened to leave homes, says MP

[PrawnofthePatriarchy]

"Trans people are frightened to go out or use public toilets after the Supreme Court ruling which defined a woman in terms of biological sex, a Labour MP has said."

"Rachel Taylor, who is a member of the women and equality select committee, described the interim guidance put forward by the equality and human rights commission after the ruling as “dangerous” and “incorrect”."

www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/labour-party-conference-2025-live-keir-starmer-latest-news-v7zvhgqhg

I think toilet signs should be 'penis' and 'vagina' shaped. If you can pee standing up, use the mens😁

I recently noticed some places have made the female toilet unisex but the mens stays the same. I had gone in to use it and there are pee stains on the seat. Not saying women don't leave stains (I actually asked my husband how that is possible and he suggests some people hover🤔) but that looked look a penis pee pitter patter splash..

It's a good thing cis-rapists respect door signs...

It will be a good thing when all biological men respect door signs

(BTW cis- is only in your head)

I take it you don't bother locking your front door and, in fact, just saunter out and leave it wide open, when you leave the house?

After all, if a determined burglar can break in even if it's locked, why bother to lock it at all and deter the opportunists and less-determined? In for a penny, in for a pound, right? If there's any crime at all, we should not bother reducing it, we might as well let crime rates soar.

Also the You can pee next to me campaign suggested upthread?

If Stonewall want to do something that’s actually useful for trans people, they could campaign for them being safe & accepted in the spaces for their own sex.

Good on the fiance for obeying the law & staying out of women’s toilets though.

Fucking hell, is this 'argument' still being wheeled out?

No doubt to be closely followed by 'but your bathroom at home is mixed sex'

Exactly, normalising extreme, dysfunctional reactions and presenting them as if they're a rational and logical response to the situation. It's very harmful.

Another psychic politian like the one who could see people's souls.

Or did I mean psycho?

Why? Being trans isn't a visible characteristic. No-one will know how anyone identifies, as has always been the case.

Jeans, sweatshirt, trainers. Walk up the street. No problem. What a fuss about nothing.

Yes, agree. This is a great moment for Stonewall and all the woke bros to step up to the plate and show their fellow males, who identify as women, how welcome they are in the Gents.

I look forward to seeing #YouCanPeeNextToMe trending on Twitter as they stand in solidarity with their brethren.

Rachel Taylor needs to go out and talk to more people. A greater variety of people

Sorry for the delay in responding - also working. I complained to the girl on the desk (very young, gave me the “policy is being reviewed shpiel”) but I will be putting it in writing. In answer to other’s questions this was a fairly quiet hostel in England run by the YHA and in a shared dorm. I did notice another trans woman who had stayed (very obviously pre-op) but not sure where she slept - could have been a private room, or a male dorm, or another female dorm.

Why should a small socially awkward man be allowed in The Ladies any more than my strapping DS?
Because one would be easier to fight off than the other?
Is that how we decide who can use women only spaces now - well I reckon I could take you in a fight so in you come

You see, I don't think she is thick, that's the weird thing about TRAs and allies like Rachel Taylor. They aren't necessarily stupid, many of them like RT are at the very least 'book smart' - she was a solicitor, and you need to have quite a lot of functioning braincells to do that.

I see she was also an umpire at Wimbledon which must mean something!

They may well be sensible and thoughtful people otherwise [note: they may be..]
but their judgment has been switched to OFF when it comes to genderwoo.

During the last election campaign here in Ireland, I made a point of asking the canvassers, in a very friendly tone of voice - not even a hint of toxicity
'You know your party's transgender policies? Well, tell me honestly, do you really believe men can become women, and we should give them a certificate to say they are now women? Seriously?'

It was interesting how many either weren't aware just how far our genderwoo legislation had gone; quite a few squirmed a lot and said, well.... no.... but..., while a few said, 'I agree with you, I'm going to take it up with HQ'.

It's like there's been this blanket fog of #benicery that has descended on people who really should know better - and at some level I suspect, really do know better but they have now taken a firm position on a melting iceflow.

Or as Burke put it -
'this very ungraceful distress, in which they can neither retract with dignity nor persist with justice'

It's a good thing we now know that no men are allowed to be in women's toilets and we don't have to worry about whether they are "cis" or trans.

This is unlawful.

I do understand that a transwoman who passes might feel awkward using the gents. But I absolutely refute that they are at more risk (and probably much much less) than my 10 year son who also uses the gents.

I agree with this. They are not at more risk by using the correct toilet for their sex. If it feels awkward, this should diminish with repeated exposure and the more trans women are seen in the Gents, the more it's normalised for everyone in there. They can also use unisex loos, where provided.

I don't disagree with you in the main, but I think it is pretty thick - despite the book larning - to go along with this. And morally craven. Though perhaps the more apposite term is to 'beclown' themselves, as they really are making a holy show of themselves by going along with this.

It's really illuminating to watch otherwise reasonably intelligent people let their brains fall out over this, just because they're more concerned with being seen to 'be kind' or - more cynically but perhaps more accurately for Rachel Taylor.- because it's expedient for them to do so and they've identified that it's necessary for them to pretend to agree if they want to climb the greasy pole.

But the number who actually pass (as opposed to those who believe they do & whose friends lie to then) is tiny. I was in a restaurant the other day and 2 members of staff were trans-identifying males, both quite young but neither even came close to passing.

If they genuinely pass then women will not know they’re there (and realistically nothing can be done to stop them), but humans are very adept at telling the sex of other humans so the vast majority of “transwomen” need to get used to using the gents.

One account of two women pushing someone out of the toilets when the women shouting didn’t work, is the most negative experience I have found. This was in a report from Stonewall. There’s nothing else I have come across from a man going into the women’s except a woman/women asking a man to leave. Normally women don’t say anything due to being uncomfortable or afraid. Hopefully that will reassure your friend. As others have said, most men will just ignore.

Women who want to use the men’s are rarer (they prefer mixed sex) but are afraid to go into the men’s and hate the smell, reduced hygiene and are afraid of getting assaulted.

In fact only 48% of transgender people were uncomfortable using public toilets which ‘compares’ favourably with 80% of people in general. However these were different surveys with different aims so you can’t directly compare.

What I can not believe is there is so little research around how to address modern health and safety issues in toilets. They are such a necessity. I get why your friend may be scared because it all my uk evidence it is a male only crime for voyeurism or assaults. That’s because it is a male behaviour problem. I believe having single sex cubicles with door gaps prevents assaults, according to my data, because most men would come to someone’s aid if they could hear or see someone being attacked. It also means your friend could assess what was going on around them. The most dangerous toilets are those where a male can enter (and it not be seen as unusual) and then it’s soundproof and private. It doesn’t seem to matter how busy it is outside the room/cubicle door particularly with attacks on children.

I know it sounds scary but as far as my data goes, it is much more dangerous for women and children to be in mixed sex spaces. And it is rare that bad things happen. I want to make that less by having more single sex toilets with door gaps. Mixed sex toilet designs are all private.

I’d be interested for Rachel to come up with more detail on why it is dangerous and incorrect, but more importantly what she thinks the solution is. On what basis should someone be allowed to use the facilities of the opposite sex, the way they look, whether they hold a GRC, what operations they’ve had? It’s all empty words till she is open and honest about how she imagines it would work and how it wouldn’t conflict with the rights of others.

My now a woman brother is obsessed with toilets. It's now his new favourite subject aside from surgery chatrooms.
We've had to hear all about his fears and how he can't go out or go to work.
He's managed to make it to Waitrose for some nice food.
Travelled a considerable distance to see Oasis
Went to several Pride events in local towns
Is such a regular in local pubs, they check in if he misses a quiz night.
Turns out he can cope with toilets if he's got a skin full of beer or there's something fun out there.
He's over 6ft, bulky and has never given a shit about women's rights or fears. He's in there for the perving.

They certainly don't have to respect door signs if anyone can use any facility.

Neither do voyeurs and flashers, who are overwhelmingly male.

If they are so good at passing as women then how would we notice they're there? This is a catch 22 of their own making.
Either you are sure you can pass as a woman therefore who will catch you out? Or you know you can't pass as a woman ergo you should never have been in the women's toilets to begin with.