NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #54

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to: [email protected].

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025
Thread 53: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404208-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-53 from 3 September

Or wife. Or massive fan girl. I don't know if they still call them MarySue because I dropped out of that world when life got in the way of sci-fi fandom. Are they stans now?

I just know I worry about anyone who claims to know what people really think or what they really mean and how they're covering up that they are nasty people. Half the time I'm not sure why I'm thinking things till I've unpicked them, so I can't see how a total stranger can know it.

I seek not to know the answers but to understand the questions, or, more likely. 'Everyone's mad except me and thee, and sometimes I'm not sure aout thee."

'Everyone's mad except me and thee, and sometimes I'm not sure aout thee."

Completely OT, but I know a slightly different version of that one - 'Th'ole world's queer 'cept thee and me and even thee's a bit odd'

Well, that's Yorkshire for you!

Had crossed my mind, I must admit.

I gather that after spending thousands of pounds throwing everyting at the tribunal case, abusing nurse Peggie in the tribunal hearing ( through their KC), subjecting her to disciplinary proceedings, and generally making her life near intolerable, NHS Fife have now caved and instructed their hospitals to provide single sex facilities. You couldn't make it up!

Where is Dr Upton now? I imagine that he was using the women's loos as well as the changing rooms. What will he do? oh dear, oh dear!

Never mind him, what's Isla Bumba doing? She doesn't know if she's a man or a woman. Which toilets has she been using? Has anyone at A&E had a word with her about the panicked visits she's presumably been having there every month? Perhaps her husband can shed some light?

Sad times.😁

I'm not at all sure that OP is a woman.

What I am sure of, if the OP is the one I am thinking of, is that whether it's a man, a woman or a bug-eyed monster with tentacles, what it wants is for everyone to accept the dictum that to understand all is to forgive all.

I am fairly sure that is a crock, because however much we may understand Dr Mengele or Vladimir Putin that doesn't mean we forgive them; and we can understand what the OP insists on referring to as "cognitive difference"and I constantly read as "cognitive dissonance" without feeling that the people suffering it are necessarily right in their belief any more than the two examples above were or are right in the behaviour stemming from their beliefs.

Spending hundreds of thousands of pounds!

Neither am I, but we were told they were female and had given birth more than once. They are clearly a person who puts a low value on truth and on facts, but I'll play along rather than sink to their level.

I have come across women who were ruthlessly ambitious and prepared to say and do anything they thought it took to suit their needs, and the one I knew best was as Dunning Kruger as that OP.

I tend to regard that as "don't you know who I am?" syndrome, the complete blank disbelief that anyone dares to disagree with the person involved.

Not to excuse NHS Fife in any way, but I think the bulk of the money was spent by NHS Scotland. So Fife spends thousands and Scotland spends hundreds of thousands. 2 public bodies wasting public funds with apparently no grown ups intervening.

What was striking was how Taztoy shared the pain of her rape in a post at 1703 asking Tandora to acknowledge this (after already asking her several times) and the very next post after that one is Tandora asking another poster But what inspired the thought? when referred to as being righteous. And going on to persevere about that without ever responding to Taztoy. It’s the most blatant example of self centredness I’ve ever seen on MN.

It’s the most blatant example of self centredness I’ve ever seen on MN.

As they say, it's a feature, not a bug.

I genuinely think that it must be on purpose, I honestly think that poster just enjoys upsetting women.

To be that callous and to intentionally twist peoples words in that smug fashion, on top of all the other misogynistic behaviour over multiple threads and years of posting, it can't simply be self centredness. I've said this before on other threads but the posting style reminds me of an abusive ex boyfriend.

It's much worse than self centredness.

With these TRAs, every accusation - unkindness, closed mindedness, wilful ignorance, delusion, rudeness, dishonest language, dehumanisation, disbelief in science, disrespect, uncaring about children - is a confession. They are absolutely egregious in everything they accuse GC people of being.

No. IMO that poster is talking out of their bum when they say they know stuff like that. I don't think they know Theodore, I sometimes wonder if that poster actually knows many trans identified people they seem to know so little about them.

I don't know which thread you have been talking about.

But I confidently predict that if Upton is censured by the Judge, he will swear blind that it's because he identifies as Trans and not because he's a spoilt entitled young man having a tantrum because he can't get his own way.

And no, I don't know him - I am just going by the reports which have been posted on these threads.

No. IMO that poster is talking out of their bum when they say they know stuff like that. I don't think they know Theodore, I sometimes wonder if that poster actually knows many trans identified people they seem to know so little about them.

@CohensDiamondTeethI’m hoping my edit works.

Sometimes though it’s a person with a trans identified child who is trying to justify their actions and doesn’t want to reflect on the damage done.

That is actually hilarious. And some other things too, but undeniably funny.

I hate to tell them this, but they may well be in the wrong place!

Still, they can keep telling themselves they're on the right side of history where people like Sandie and Maria and Naomi and Maya and the Darlington nurses are busy making history. I'm sure that'll make them feel so much better.

I think that particular poster has occasionally let slip that they work in a related field - not medicine but perhaps counselling. This could mean they feel a need to justify work-related decisions, e.g. referring patients for hormone treatment.