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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #54

1000 replies

nauticant · 28/09/2025 18:51

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to: [email protected].

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025
Thread 53: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404208-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-53 from 3 September

OP posts:
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29
NebulousSupportPostcard · 20/11/2025 00:12

MyAmpleSheep · 20/11/2025 00:00

She's going to set up a consultancy advising other NHS Trusts and similar public sector organizations how to comply with their sex-based equality requirements. After all she's now an expert, with real-world experience. Betcha. Frankly, win or lose, the SP tribunal could well be the best thing that ever happened for her career.

Edited

She has quite a jolly look about her. Maybe she could get a slot on QVC shopping channel selling DryRobes as an outdoor individual alternative to old-fashioned changing rooms. With a bit of wild swimming to save on the cost of hot showers. It could be a boon for NHS hospitals close to the ocean, or even a reasonably-sized boating lake.

MyAmpleSheep · 20/11/2025 01:45

NebulousSupportPostcard · 20/11/2025 00:12

She has quite a jolly look about her. Maybe she could get a slot on QVC shopping channel selling DryRobes as an outdoor individual alternative to old-fashioned changing rooms. With a bit of wild swimming to save on the cost of hot showers. It could be a boon for NHS hospitals close to the ocean, or even a reasonably-sized boating lake.

I"m actually not joking. At all. She has a perfect CV for consultancy. Past success or failure is completely irrelevant to people who need consultants to take difficult decisions.

Now that I think about it, I'm pretty certain she has her first couple of gigs lined up. Nobody is going to give up a salary like hers without a safe place to jump to.

nauticant · 20/11/2025 06:45

Continuation thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5447019-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-55

Please would posters continue to post here until this thread is full. Thanks!

OP posts:
Hoardasurass · 20/11/2025 07:40

MyAmpleSheep · 20/11/2025 00:00

She's going to set up a consultancy advising other NHS Trusts and similar public sector organizations how to comply with their sex-based equality requirements. After all she's now an expert, with real-world experience. Betcha. Frankly, win or lose, the SP tribunal could well be the best thing that ever happened for her career.

Edited

Very unlikely even in Scotland. Her name is mud every single newspaper has run multiple articles lambasting her and calling for her to resign or be sacked, then theres the blackspot of death that John swinney handed her (his full support and confidence). Noone in their right mind would hire her in a public role let alone a governing role of a public body and thats before the Peggie judgement or the 2nd tribunal she's already started against her managers and NHS Fife.
Basically she's now so infamous that no board will be able to employ her atleast until after the Scottish elections next year and then only if there's a snp landslide

SirChenjins · 20/11/2025 08:16

Hoardasurass · 20/11/2025 07:40

Very unlikely even in Scotland. Her name is mud every single newspaper has run multiple articles lambasting her and calling for her to resign or be sacked, then theres the blackspot of death that John swinney handed her (his full support and confidence). Noone in their right mind would hire her in a public role let alone a governing role of a public body and thats before the Peggie judgement or the 2nd tribunal she's already started against her managers and NHS Fife.
Basically she's now so infamous that no board will be able to employ her atleast until after the Scottish elections next year and then only if there's a snp landslide

Don't bet on it - NHSS is a small pond with lots of big fish in it who look after each other. My bet is for her to reappear in one of the special boards in a role that isn't publicly advertised working with our beloved and captured Scottish Govt in some capacity or other.

Londonmummy66 · 20/11/2025 11:13

She could always re-identify as Colin and think that no one would know she was a woman formerly know as Carol....

Itmakesme · 20/11/2025 11:23

prh47bridge · 19/11/2025 21:37

The Equality Act does not apply in Northern Ireland, which is why FWS doesn't apply there. The judgement on religious education was based on the ECHR, not the Equality Act.

But there’s lot of legislation that’s slightly different in NI.

But Supreme Courts rulings are binding here. So meaning of man and woman must be on biology. In 1998 when the Equaliites law was set up there was no gender wang & everybody was sex realist for the most part.

The fact it predates the Equalities Acr 2010 by 12 years is surely more power to the Supreme Courts interpretative effect?

WearyAuldWumman · 20/11/2025 11:38

Carol Potter’s time as NHS Fife chief executive had been demanding yet typical of the top boss at a major health board until December 24, 2023.
That is when a nightmare before Christmas unfolded at Kirkcaldy’s Victoria Hospital, sparking events that would torpedo the organisation’s reputation and, ultimately, change the course of her six-year reign.
More than six months passed before news of nurse Sandie Peggie and trans doctor Beth Upton’s changing room row emerged in the media.
But from that moment on, it was inevitable that this issue – soon propelled to the heart of a global storm – would define Ms Potter’s performance in the top job at NHS Fife.
‘Taking the fall’
This week’s announcement of her early retirement was no surprise to her colleagues.
Several staff members told The Courier that, with the Peggie tribunal ruling expected next month, it was “inevitable”.
Insiders claim she is “taking the fall” after nearly a year of criticism over the board’s handling of the case.
Some expressed concern that Ms Potter – who has worked in the NHS for three decades – may not be the right communications fit for an organisation whose public image needs urgent restoration.

There's more in the article. Not sure whether non-subscribers can read all of it online. If not, let me know and I'll add the rest if that's allowed.

NHS Fife chief who presided over Sandie Peggie fallout takes early retirement

Carol Potter has been criticised for the health board's handling of the Sandie Peggie trans row employment tribunal.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/5374505/carol-potter-nhs-fife-retirement-sandie-peggie-case/

Redshoeblueshoe · 20/11/2025 11:43

I couldn't read it, so thanks wearyauldwumman

WearyAuldWumman · 20/11/2025 11:49

Thanks for letting me know @Redshoeblueshoe .

More of the article below.

One source said: “There are concerns about whether she will be able to do any of the media when the decision comes because she’s not a confident performer.”
This view was echoed by a source who attends regular meetings Ms Potter holds with local politicians.

They said: “She would become frustrated at detailed questions, saying she could not answer it or that this was an inappropriate place to ask the question. We’d be told to follow up by email.”
With the ruling just weeks away, it remains to be seen whether Ms Potter will ‘front up’ to the media, regardless of which way it goes.
NHS Fife chief’s ‘toughest period’
The Courier has submitted multiple requests to interview the NHS Fife chief executive in recent times but has yet to receive a response.
Ms Potter, who reportedly earns around £145,000 a year, has held the top job – initially on an interim basis – since January 2020.
NHS Fife chair Pat Kilpatrick this week insisted she had demonstrated “outstanding leadership” and that she was leaving “a strong legacy for her successor to build upon”.
The health board praised Ms Potter for leading its response to the Covid-19 pandemic and “sustaining essential services during unprecedented disruption and the ongoing recovery and modernisation of health and care services across Fife”.

She said progress had been made in strengthening NHS Fife’s financial stability, claiming “focused transformation” had laid the foundations for long-term improvement.
But the trans row tribunal has cast a shadow over the organisation for nearly two years, amid allegations of secrecy and the mishandling of major decisions.
A source told us: “This is by far the toughest period Carol’s had in her 30-year NHS career.
“It’s no surprise she’s decided to go.”
NHS Fife trans row tribunal statement saga
Ms Peggie is suing NHS Fife and Dr Upton, who was born male but identifies as female, over sexual harassment claims.
She alleges the health board breached the Equality Act 2010 by allowing the trans medic to use the women’s facilities at Victoria Hospital and says her suspension in the wake of the Christmas Eve bust-up was discrimination.

Sandie Peggie | The Courier

The latest news and analysis on Sandie Peggie, a nurse who worked for the NHS for 30 years and brought an employment tribunal case against NHS Fife.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/tag/sandie-peggie/

WearyAuldWumman · 20/11/2025 11:52

Ms Peggie confronted Dr Upton after becoming uncomfortable when the medic started to undress in the changing room.
NHS Fife argued its guidance at the time was that transgender staff should be allowed to use the changing facility of their acquired gender.
In April, the health board was told to admit defeat after the Supreme Court ruled the terms “woman” and “sex” in the Equality Act refer to a biological woman and biological sex.
Six months later, it told staff to use facilities that correspond with their sex at birth, rather than their gender identity.
The most intense pressure on Ms Potter came in the summer following NHS Fife’s extraordinary 1,700-word statement on the Peggie case during the tribunal in Dundee.
This intervention was intended as a fightback against criticism.

But it resulted in a rebuke from Scotland’s top transparency watchdog, crashed NHS Fife’s website and was edited multiple times with sections erased.
Hours after its release, the organisation was forced to clarify it did not intend to blame Sex Matters – the gender-critical charity supporting Ms Peggie – for threats of physical harm and sexual violence linked to the case which were reported to police.
Scottish Conservative leader Russell Findlay described the fallout from the statement as “dire” and “an ongoing slow-motion car crash”.
Other politicians told Ms Potter to quit.

Harry Potter author JK Rowling – who has publicly supported Ms Peggie – also waded in, calling NHS Fife “hapless” and “unprofessional”.
Internal revolt
We revealed the chief executive was facing an internal revolt over the situation, with confidence in her leadership dented.
But it was staff members sympathetic to Dr Upton – speaking to The Courier on the condition of anonymity – who felt the controversy had been mishandled by the health board which has been accused of punishing Ms Peggie to protect the trans doctor.
And the tribunal has proved costly.
NHS Fife has spent £300,000 of taxpayer cash defending the action, with those legal costs likely to rise.
Some employees think NHS Fife could have attempted to settle the case, which has made global headlines and seen several of their colleagues cross-examined about their roles in the saga.
One told us: “Doctors, senior nurses and others have had to pay the price in front of the tribunal.”
Last week The Courier revealed NHS Fife was embroiled in a secrecy row over the 1,700-word release, with our Freedom of Information (FOI) request for details on pre-statement discussions rejected.

The health board’s FOI team claimed releasing any relevant documents would prevent the “effective conduct” of public affairs.
“Once again NHS Fife is refusing to release important information which should be in the public debate,” said Mid Scotland and Fife Tory MSP Murdo Fraser.

“Was this Carol Potter, or someone else in the leadership team?”
Mr Fraser’s Conservative colleague Roz McCall has also been critical of Ms Potter’s handling of the Peggie controversy.
“Trust in the board’s leadership has been badly damaged by a period of chaotic decision-making,” Ms McCall said.
“I have been clear for some time there must be accountability at the very top.”
She added: “Our exceptional doctors, nurses and staff deserve leadership that matches their dedication and puts patients first.”

Information watchdog threatens court action against NHS Fife after 'petulant' statement on Sandie Peggie case

The Scottish information commissioner says NHS Fife's statement casts doubt on "assurances" given to him.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/politics/5292809/information-watchdog-nhs-fife-statement-sandie-peggie/

prh47bridge · 20/11/2025 13:00

Itmakesme · 20/11/2025 11:23

But there’s lot of legislation that’s slightly different in NI.

But Supreme Courts rulings are binding here. So meaning of man and woman must be on biology. In 1998 when the Equaliites law was set up there was no gender wang & everybody was sex realist for the most part.

The fact it predates the Equalities Acr 2010 by 12 years is surely more power to the Supreme Courts interpretative effect?

The Supreme Court ruling was specifically about interpretation of the Equality Act. It is persuasive about the interpretation of other legislation but not binding. It is not guaranteed that the Supreme Court would interpret the equivalent legislation in Northern Ireland the same way, although it is likely they would.

StanfreyPock · 20/11/2025 13:11

Reading these articles gives me the absolute rage. I made the mistake of reading Ms Potter's leaving statement, which was the very worst kind of management blah word salad. If you get paid 145k for producing that kind of guff I really despair.
Just hoping on hope for good news soon 🙏

Freda69 · 20/11/2025 13:22

How can a not confident performer who can’t do detail earn 145k a year? Exactly how do people like this get the top jobs?

lcakethereforeIam · 20/11/2025 14:09

I can't read the full article, is there anything in it that clarifies this bit

But it was staff members sympathetic to Dr Upton – speaking to The Courier on the condition of anonymity – who felt the controversy had been mishandled by the health board which has been accused of punishing Ms Peggie to protect the trans doctor.

Did they say how they believed it had been mishandled? That DU should have been given his own changing area. That the board didn't burn the witch fast enough?

MyAmpleSheep · 20/11/2025 14:27

StanfreyPock · 20/11/2025 13:11

Reading these articles gives me the absolute rage. I made the mistake of reading Ms Potter's leaving statement, which was the very worst kind of management blah word salad. If you get paid 145k for producing that kind of guff I really despair.
Just hoping on hope for good news soon 🙏

Somebody in corporate comms got paid half that to write it, and she got paid to employ them to write it and to sign it.

NoWordForFluffy · 20/11/2025 14:40

Freda69 · 20/11/2025 13:22

How can a not confident performer who can’t do detail earn 145k a year? Exactly how do people like this get the top jobs?

They fail upwards. Known phenomenon.

EsmeShelby · 20/11/2025 15:13

She was a Director of Finance before she was CEO, you can't do that without being able to do detail. That just doesn't seem plausible to me.

Hoardasurass · 20/11/2025 15:22

lcakethereforeIam · 20/11/2025 14:09

I can't read the full article, is there anything in it that clarifies this bit

But it was staff members sympathetic to Dr Upton – speaking to The Courier on the condition of anonymity – who felt the controversy had been mishandled by the health board which has been accused of punishing Ms Peggie to protect the trans doctor.

Did they say how they believed it had been mishandled? That DU should have been given his own changing area. That the board didn't burn the witch fast enough?

I'd guess not siding with him in the final investigation into his complaints against sandie

NebulousSupportPostcard · 20/11/2025 15:40

I read the article in the early hours when it wasnt paywalled. It seemed to me to be a 'holding' article pulled together from past reports, probably to maintain interest as we all await the decision. I vaguely remember an article somewhere in the press earlier in the year, where a reporter seemed to be asking locals for their opinions, and the responses were mixed. But there wasnt a link on that paragraph in last night's report.

I don't think there's anything to read into it except that people are probably googling "sandie peggie latest" and similar, so they put out a summary article to generate much needed clicks.

betterBeElwinNextIGuess · 20/11/2025 15:50

So the Courier thinks judgement is expect "next month" and is "just weeks away" - do we think they know what they're talking about? I was hoping for tomorrow, myself...

nauticant · 20/11/2025 16:34

I think they're simply going by the rule-of-thumb of 3 months. So, hearing ends on 2 September so +3 months = 2 December which is both "next month" and "just weeks away".

There's nothing to say that the judgment won't be handed down after Christmas. Hopefully not though.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 20/11/2025 17:24

betterBeElwinNextIGuess · 20/11/2025 15:50

So the Courier thinks judgement is expect "next month" and is "just weeks away" - do we think they know what they're talking about? I was hoping for tomorrow, myself...

Weeks could mean 2 weeks. Could mean six. Could mean ten...

How long is that piece of string?

betterBeElwinNextIGuess · 20/11/2025 17:29

RedToothBrush · 20/11/2025 17:24

Weeks could mean 2 weeks. Could mean six. Could mean ten...

How long is that piece of string?

True, but couldn't mean 0 or 1, which is what many of us were (are! I haven't given up) hoping for on the assumption that Carol Potter's retirement may/might have been prompted by parties' sight of the judgement. We'll see, sigh.

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