NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #54

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to: [email protected].

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025
Thread 53: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404208-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-53 from 3 September

This thread is being started well in advance. That's because I'm off on holiday and if something happens then thread #53 might end up being quickly filled up while I'm away.

Please would people continue to post on thread #53 until it's full before starting on this one. Having two threads being posted on in parallel for a week or so will cause confusion.

Thanks!

Witnesses in the hearing with skeleton chronology:

Monday, 3 February 2025
Sandie Peggie

Tuesday, 4 February 2025
Sandie Peggie

Wedneday, 5 February 2025
Sandie Peggie
Maya Forstater
Darren Peggie (Sandie Peggie's husband)
Nicole Peggie (Sandie Peggie's daughter)

Thursday, 6 February 2025
a row about disclosure particularly over BMA documents
Sheila Bell (Sandie Peggie's mum)
Beth Upton

Friday, 7 February 2025
very late start, massive row over disclosure, agreed that Beth Upton would start giving evidence on Monday

Monday, 10 February 2025
Beth Upton

Tuesday, 11 February 2025
Beth Upton
collapse of public access

Wednesday, 12 February 2025
Beth Upton

Thursday, 13 February 2025
Esther Davidson

Friday, 14 February 2025
Esther Davidson

a break of many months

Wednesday, 16 July 2025
Isla Bumba

Thursday, 17 July 2025
Gillian Malone

Friday, 18 July 2025
Elspeth Pitt
Louise Curran
the omnishambles ending provided by the statement from NHS Fife

Monday, 21 July 2025
a late start seemingly with the panel and lawyers in discussions about something
Lottie Myles

Tuesday, 22 July 2025
another late start seemingly with the panel and lawyers in discussions about something
Kate Searle

Wednesday, 23 July 2025
another late start seemingly with the panel and lawyers in discussions about something
Lauren Harris
Kate Searle

Thursday, 24 July 2025
Angela Glancy
during AG's testimony there was a row over NC's entitlement to use correct-sex pronouns
Ann Hamilton

Friday, 25 July 2025
Peter Donaldson
Jim Borwick
Maggie Currer

Monday, 28 July 2025
a chaotic start with Claimant requesting new witnesses and provision of new documents
Fiona Wishart
Lindsey Nicoll

Tuesday, 29 July 2025
Maggie Currer
Emma Moore
Sandie Peggie

Closing submissions were on Monday, 1 September 2025 and Tuesday, 2 September 2025.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/29/court-throws-out-nhs-sandie-peggie-case-bananarama-defence/

Ha Ha Ha

V politely, and to save @nauticant’s sanity:

Fill up the old thread first

"The Bananarama defence is so-called because of the band’s 1980s hit ‘It Ain’t What You Do, It’s the Way That You Do It’."

I'm amazed that this is still going on, given the Supreme Court ruling.

You guys are killing me.

Please, please, fill up the old thread first.

And please don't fill up the start of the new one with posts thanking the wonderful Nauticant - she's on record as saying that a 'thanks' reaction emoji is better as it takes up less space in the new thread, and that gives her a bit more time before she has to start a new new thread!
= not a direct quote from Nauticant, I added that last bit
I can't do bigly letters. I just use the force of my personality to make you obey me

And the Watch Thread button has been moved to the bottom of the first post from the top of the page, but is still at the bottom of the page too, so you don't need to post to place mark.

🤐

I jus saw a report on FB that NHS Fife have issued a declaration that people need to use the facilites of their birth sex, but as usual it refreshed and I can't find it and I'm off out in 2 mins...

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/nhs-fife-finally-ban-men-35993991

NHS Fife finally ban men from women's changing rooms and toilets as it tries to avoid further Sandie Peggie embarrassment

This will upset Dr Upton's applecart.

Sad Times

The Telegraph

https://archive.ph/WdjRG

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/10/01/nhs-fife-scotland-trans-staff-toilets-biological-sex/

I think it's the Equality Impact Assessment that Fife belatedly commissioned.

Ooooo. I’m curious about what the people involved in Fife think about this. Quite clearly people like Kate Searle were very confident in their position at the time, I wonder if she holds that same confidence now.

In fact, I’d love to know what the top bosses at Fife really think about this. It comes across like no one involved is even speaking to each other, eg contradictory media comms vs tribunal statements. This is exactly why I feel public sector workers are generally inept.

Ooooo. I’m curious about what the people involved in Fife think about this. Quite clearly people like Kate Searle were very confident in their position at the time, I wonder if she holds that same confidence now.

It seems most unfortunate timing. Yesterday the Judge referred to Jane Russell's negligence. Today NHS Fife publishes a ruling which confirms what we have known all along, that there are only two sexes. Kate Searle, Maggie Currer, Esther Davidson and Isla Bumba have been shown up as complete fools. If they ever really did think they couldn't tell the difference between men and women, that is.

Liars, definitely.

Hmm, the Telegraph journalist here seems to have picked up the wrong end of the stick? I'd love it to be correct though...

Court throws out NHS attempt to use ‘Bananarama’ legal defence in Sandie Peggie case
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/29/court-throws-out-nhs-sandie-peggie-case-bananarama-defence/

lol. Sad times for Dr Upton. 🤭🤭

'It was the best of sad times; it was the worst of sad times.'

EQIA now published for the new NHS Fife policy: https://www.nhsfife.org/news-updates/latest-news/2025/09/statement-eqia-redesign-of-staff-changing-and-toilet-facilities-across-the-nhs-fife-estate/ (what is the bollocks about potential impact on bullying/harassment by sexual orientation - is that the trope about butch lesbians getting challenged in the ladies?!)

Yes, the journalist has got the wrong end of the stick. Fife's attempt to amend their pleadings to specifically argue that SP's manifestation of her gender critical beliefs was unacceptable has been rejected, but the tribunal has been clear that the issue is on the table anyway and will be considered.

This has to be embarrassing for Isla Bumba. I can’t imagine she would be seen as credible at work anymore, given a lot of this contradicts the evidence she provided and her approach throughout the process. I imagine she would have been involved with drafting this, surely? That must sting.

It is signed off by an Equality and Human Rights Executive Lead who is not Isla Bumba. Maybe they just took it away and gave it to someone less embarrassing?

Question!

Now that NHS Fife has aligned itself with the law, I am left to wonder...

If the men-who-claim-to-be-women moan about using the toilets that align with their natal birth at, must they do it in a certain manner?

Are they not risking being told they are objectionably manifesting their beliefs before being thrown to the tribunal wolves?

Ponderous.

Reported in the Times;
https://www.thetimes.com/article/7f147d00-7cee-4e63-b276-a91aac469370?shareToken=9bb500e5dad6ee3350a8ecca11dadf53