NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #54

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to: [email protected].

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025
Thread 53: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404208-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-53 from 3 September

That particular poster has also claimed to be a scientist researching into the field of gender, I think. Something along those lines, anyway.

I think the enforcing of SSS by NHS Fife will be hugely damaging to their case. Coupled with the disciplinary finding that Sandie had done no wrong (albeit not being quite innocent enough and deserving of punishment, despite being found blameless) must surely be a double whammy.

How can Russel now argue about Sandie's tone, or demeanour? Surely they must fold? They haven't a leg to stand on. Her tone is beyond doubt utterly irrelevant, Betheodore wasn't allowed to be there, it's incontrovertible now.

And an astronaut? And an engine driver? But not, apparently, a decent human being who can accept that people don't agree with them and have feelings too.

It’s amazing what you can research from your mum’s back bedroom.

I just wish someone internally would leak some info, I’d just love to know how awkward things are!

My guess is Dr U is being well supported at work as NHSF wants to minimise any risk of tribunal claims from Dr U (ie claiming the reverse, trans-related discrimination). Plus, the individuals involved are going to be mindful that the SC ruling came after these events, so they’ll tell themselves they did the right thing at the time. I’m thinking DU likely has management saying they don’t agree with the higher up’s decision & they fully support DU etc. I imagine there’s a level of vindication there regardless of the outcome.

An issue for Dr U going forward is that junior doctors usually have to apply for a new job every year……..

An issue for Dr U going forward is that junior doctors usually have to apply for a new job every year……..

I think he's now going to be very difficult to get rid of. If they don't offer him a post he will scream Transphobia, and in a way it would be true, because his behaviour as a trans Identifying man has overridden everything else.

And not least landed them in a damaging Employment Tribunal - although they will blame Sandie Peggie for that.

Oxymoron.

Idk. Could be an undergraduate on a (trans) gender studies module writing shit essays.

<mode=MaisieofthePerishers> You take that back right now and stop being mean about my Marlon! He's not a what you said moron. </mode>

If he doesn't get a job he's likely to claim unfair/constructive dismissal and say it's because he's been discriminated against. I think Fife are stuck with him until he chooses to leave. Perhaps he will end up in a non-patient-facing role, where he can do least harm. We used to call that 'being promoted out of harms way' when I worked in children's safeguarding.

So when will NHSFife be doing the rounds of cheek swabs necessary for their employees to know what sex they are? Surely the ones on record as not knowing their chromosomes/if they are male or female will need chromosome testing asap to ensure they abide by the (now acknowledged) law?

Busy times, sad times…

Sad times yet again.

Hopefully he will steer clear of obs & gynae....

is species assigned at birth by some officious medic as well?

Foran to post on Sunday on the significance of the judge’s questions and the comment on negligence. Racy stuff

It's not just NHS Fife changing their toilet policy. Scottish Govt have changed their policy too
https://sex-matters.org/posts/publications/petition-for-judicial-review-of-scottish-govt/

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/snp-government-secretly-change-trans-35991700?mc_cid=52ec80be35&mc_eid=7fef7247a5

This is awesome. Well done Sex Matters

That's great. But as I was just reading a moment ago in a SM update, the Scottish govt will still need to be to pressured on this. As we've seen elsewhere, having the law on your side isn't much help if it isn't being applied on the ground.

But so far the Scottish Government has made the change quietly. We don’t think this is good enough. Worryingly, it has been reported that the Leith branch of the civil service union has briefed its members to continue to act in defiance of the law and “use whichever bathroom makes sense to you”.
So we have started the cycle of challenging the Scottish Government again, writing to ask for confirmation of how it is going to implement the policy. We are also writing to the Cabinet Office and Welsh Government to ask them the same thing about their policies.

I have a question - what if the panel decide that NHS Fife were correct to launch the investigation based on what DU said but that DU lied? Does that make DU liable or is NHS Fife on the grounds that they employed him?

It's more about the way they ran the investigation than whether they were right to launch one.

Oh yes - I know that. But I’m interested in who pays the settlement if there is one. Is DU on the hook at all financially.

Also - if a judge finds his evidence “unconvincing” which is judge speak for “he’s a big fat liar” then could that lead to him having problems with whoever is in charge of doctors. (Can’t remember the name.)

I am an actuary and can be kicked out if the Institute if I do something that makes other actuaries look bad. DU (and KS) are not exactly filling me with the sense that doctors are the average consummate professional here….,

It's possible that NHS Fife have agreed to cover Uptons damages but I don't believe there's been any public statements one way or the other about it. I'm not sure what the position is in the absence of an agreement.

Oh excellent!

I highly recommend opening a bunch of the Feb Tribunal Tweets records and check out the J's and panellist qu's to SP, BU and others.

While we can't know for sure what the tribunal is thinking about the various claims and the Bananara defence, the questions (and the answers, and the demeanour of the witnesses when answering) have to be the biggest clues available as to where they might be heading.

Upton's Qu & A with the tribunal was a real treat! In his shoes (or socks), I would have just died on the spot to have a cool calm J casually ask those things.

(I was imagining the J being played by David Tennant in Broadchurch, when he casually asked Joe Miller what size trainers he wore)

I don't think I have read anything specific from Fife, but the Courier reported details of Sandie's claim, and seemed to imply that the whole bill beyond the first £25K will be covered by their insurer.

"The Courier previously revealed NHS Fife will only have to pay a maximum of £25,000 for the whole tribunal.
.
The rest of the bill – from legal fees to any eventual payout – is being covered by a national risk scheme designed to protect health boards from major losses."

www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/politics/5299032/sandie-peggie-demands-nhs-fife-tribunal/