NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #54

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence was 29 July 2025. It resumed again over 1 to 2 September for closing submissions.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February 2025. Sandie Peggie returned to give more evidence on 29 July 2025.

Access to view the second part of the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to: [email protected].

The hearing was live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #50 can be found in this thread: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 51: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5402652-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-51 1 September 2025 to 2 September 2025
Thread 52: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5403218-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-52 2 September 2025 to 4 September 2025
Thread 53: mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5404208-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-53 from 3 September

I suppose one of the (relative) boons of modern times is that at least in towns big supermarkets and some other big shops have decent loos, compared to the days when everyone had to use the public bogs on the town square.

Men design small cubicles to stop the misuse that happens in them so that they stay in use. This is viewpoint from a resorts association in the Government’s Provision of Toilets (2008):

1. Larger cubicles. Comment was made about the need to enlarge existing and, in particular, new style toilet cubicles for use by the elderly and other groups. As far as we are aware, one of the key design principles employed to limit the abuse of modern toilets is to restrict the size. The principle is simple, if you cannot swing a cat, then you cannot easily swing anything else that might cause structural damage. Nor is it easy to camp out with all your worldly goods in tow, or easy to indulge in activities of any kind with others in the limited space provided. One major problem cited with the new, accessible (disabled) on-street toilets is that they do offer that additional space and are increasingly open to all users for all or much of the day Thus, they are now frequently selected for misuse in preference to the standard cubicle units.

But surely, even if nothing much can be done to prevent misuse of accessible toilets (there's 'keeping the key behind the counter', but that's not ideal), that's not an argument for objecting for women's cubicles to be larger?

Public loos? Oh, I think I remember those, but my LA shut them all 10 years ago to save cash.

Having seen how accessible toilets are abused, I'd make every single one of 'em RADAR key accessible only.

(Personal disclaimer - fed up witH mum's with kids, people 'wanting a bit more space' and the 'I was only a minute brigade' especially if they then add 'you don't look disabled' New mums need all the help they can get and they tend to be sorry rather than entitled. And for the record, I don't owe anyone an explanation of my disability, but if you want an idea of what it is look at the warped and twisted hands and bear in mind that theY match my nature!)

"Would you like a RADAR key redtoothbrush? I can get a job lot of them on the internet, and you can have one of them if you like."

Real world conversation I've had in the past. I politely declined (seeing as I have no need and no desire for me).

I don't think a radar key is particularly helpful tbh.

RADAR isn't really the answer especially not if thats also where the baby change facilities are.
Been caught with that one, on a flipping boat trip, nobody had a key for it.
The one and only time I've resorted to changing a nappy in a public place.

If you're disabled then you do have a key for it! But I do think there need to be better baby changing facilities in all toilets. Otherwise this is a perfect example of 'people need this, but where do we put it? I know, we'll bung it in the accessible toilets." Which is fine, as long as you have enough facilities for the disabled too. Letting more and more people use them all too often means that you don't.

Maybe not for you, but for some people they're a lifeline and that includes people who care for those with dementia or serious learning disabilities as well as the physically disabled.

Besides, activists have made it very clear that they won't use them because transgender isn't a disability (and obviously having a disability is not only shameful but might be catching so they don't want to be associated with people like that, do they?)

I think I'll step away from Mumsnet for a bit because I'm finding this really upsetting.

You're misunderstanding what Red is saying. She's saying that it's so easy to get a RADAR key that making access to accessible toilets dependent on one wouldn't stop people who didn't need to use them from doing so.

Without any developments going on I see that this thread has gone down the toilet.

Being fair its was a historic boat, that probably didn't always have a disabled loo, never mind a baby change.
But God only knows what possessed them to put baby change in the disabled and then add a Radar lock.
The ladies wasn't big either just 2 cubicles.

Hahaha 😆

They had to tick boxes, and at least babies grow out of the stage of being a box to be ticked. The disabled never do, and they get used to seeing their facilities used as a storage area. Or at least I'm told some do. It hurts every time I see it and I've lived with steadily deterioriating health issues for over 40 years. All I want is to be able to go out somewhere and know I can find a loo I can use. That goes for working too, but thank God I work from home.

Mildly off-topic: I just Googled Sandie's name to see if there was any update, and the top results are all for some AI-generated libellous song by 'Bigot Much'. Why is some slop created by an account with a hundred or so YouTube subscribers being pushed ahead of actual news reports? Feeling a need to get my tinfoil hat out.

Yes, same. Someone's spiked the algorithm gnomes.

Excuse me for not finding that funny. Why not google Highgate Swimming Ponds and see that one of their solutions is for transgender people to use the accessible toilets. That means that it's not just offices who'll take the 'easy' way out, because it's clear from this thread that accessible toilets are funny to anyone who doesn't depend on them.

Anyone seen Scottish Herald? Apparently NHS Fife briefing SNP Govt about SP.

Here's the Herald article: https://archive.is/WqLne

In a hole, and calling for more shovels!

If the report is accurate, that looks like a clear breach of GDPR.

I don't think anyone on this thread has suggested that accessible toilets are in any way funny. @nauticant's joke was simply based on the fact that we've spent the last couple of days discussing toilets of all kinds, not just accessible ones.

Do I sense another lawsuit against Fife incoming?

And I doubt the already-riled Information Commissioner will be pleased, either.

@Easytoconfuse I agree that the disabled toilets should not be a catch-all dumping ground just because it has to be a space big enough for wheelchairs. With an increasing elderly and sick population, we need more of them, not less. I understand why th3 cash-strapped councils closed so many public loos, but its lead to the urinary leash effect for everyone except able-bodied men.